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Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

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Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#181

Post by throwaway292893 »

etempleton wrote: post #178
FractalParadigm wrote: post #49

I just want to throw my 2¢ out there, as a mid-20's who went to a high-rural-population high school, there's an entire new generation of farmers who have a) accepted that Deere's need constant/regular service calls, and b) don't care to learn how to fix it (or older equipment) themselves. At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other, it's the same reason why a lot of trucking companies lease the…

I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good business sense. Probably obtained an advanced degree in agriculture science, though not always, some self-educate very successfully. These farmers generally do not like John Deere and think they are overpriced, not as good as they once were, and find the lack of…

Wow. What an incredibly offensive comment. I love how HN understands the right to repair when it comes to their gadgets, but when it comes to tractors it's probably because the farmers are uneducated hicks. Please tell me more how they don't understand AG science enough, but you have such a strong grasp on it.

JD tractors were and are reliable and top tier in quality, that's why they are popular and that's why people stick to the brand. I've built Kioti tractors when I was teenager. They'd do the job if you had to use it, but it's no JD in terms of quality.

Farmers just want the quality they've always had with JD but the ability to fix simple stuff like they used to without it costing them an arm and a leg.

The stereotypes you listed off don't sound like anyone I've ever experienced. They sound like caricatures you painted in your head with your lack of understanding.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#182

Post by hackbinary »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #102
hackbinary wrote: post #88

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community) JD is moving to a Tracto…

> JD sees this coming and wants to be in the best possible position to market its services to land owners. You may be right, but, if so, this is just another move by a massive corporation to create a vertical monopoly, and extract all the rent in the space. For at least a couple of decades, companies with massive fleets of tractors sweep through the country, working farm fields for the owners, as the seasons change a…

Yes, I think so. I believe it is Cat and Rio Tinto have some form of arrangement at one of RT's mines in Aus. The dump trucks are driverless and run from RT's HQ elsewhere.

Cutting out intermediataries is what cloud computing is all about. I don't really see this as any different.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#183

Post by flerchin »

maest wrote: post #145
Casperin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me think of how many developers (who spend 10 hrs/day in front of their screen) choose Apples products. A linux machine might be better on performance, maintainance, and all that, but Linux does not care about UX the way Apple does.

What about all the developers (who spend 10 hrs/day in front of their screen) that choose unix machines?

The ux for the things I _actually do_ is way better on a linux machine.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#184

Post by hackbinary »

spinningslate wrote: post #128
hackbinary wrote: post #88

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community) JD is moving to a Tracto…

> They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. Farmers are also being squeezed by their customers - prices for farm produce have been steadily falling for over a century, see e.g. [0]. JD's commercial model requires both capital outlay in purchasing equipment, and committing to a maintenance contract that the farmer can't influence. So the farmer loses control of maintenance costs whilst also under…

Yeah, I get that. But also, there is no end in the claim of how hard the Range Rover driving, fee (private) school paying, huge farm house owning farmers in the UK have it.

The vitriol that was extended by a couple of the associates (middle managers) to one of my programmers who was vegan was absolutely amazing. He just would ask if there was any dairy in something a they would go off on him. Around that time I also stopped having dairy for health reasons, but that was okay. I had previously been sympathetic to farmers and the dairy community, but after that, I was appalled. Farmers are getting what they deserve.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#185

Post by hackbinary »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #99
hackbinary wrote: post #88

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community) JD is moving to a Tracto…

> They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. Who wants to pay more than they have to? I usually want to pay even less than I have to.

There is a difference between dehumanising people and making them feel worthless and negotiating in good faith, and then reneging on agreements.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#186

Post by etempleton »

throwaway292893 wrote: post #181
etempleton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good business sense. Probably obtained an advanced degree in agriculture science, though not always, some self-educate very successfully. These farmers generally do not like John Deere and think they are overpriced, not as good as they once were, and find the lack of…

Wow. What an incredibly offensive comment. I love how HN understands the right to repair when it comes to their gadgets, but when it comes to tractors it's probably because the farmers are uneducated hicks. Please tell me more how they don't understand AG science enough, but you have such a strong grasp on it. JD tractors were and are reliable and top tier in quality, that's why they are popular and that's why people…

I am sorry you took offense to the comment, it was not meant to be offensive. I never claimed to have any grasp on agriculture science. And I never called anyone a "hick." And of course I am speaking in generalities. Simply observing what I saw growing up. I grew up on a small farm (though I certainly would never call myself a farmer) and grew up with farmers of all types and all income levels. Some chose to be willfully ignorant and not really learn how to run the family business even though that was their end goal and some did. I don't think this was a matter of capacity of the individuals. Some of those that were willfully ignorant were quite well off and some were not quite as well off. Some took a formal route to education, some self studied. It is simple anecdotal observation that some of the more successful farmers I know a). Educated themselves one way or another. b). Those same farmers, for the most part, have started or have already moved away from John Deere. Largely due to the right to repair issues, in part due to the premium cost, but some of the farmers that I have talked to have relayed to me that they feel the quality has dropped, which is perhaps not reality, simply their perception based on frustrations surrounding right to repair. John Deere has also rapidly expanded their product categories and not all of their new products share the same famous reliability as their ag products, which could negatively impact overall perception of the brand.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#187

Post by randomdata »

etempleton wrote: post #178
FractalParadigm wrote: post #49

I just want to throw my 2¢ out there, as a mid-20's who went to a high-rural-population high school, there's an entire new generation of farmers who have a) accepted that Deere's need constant/regular service calls, and b) don't care to learn how to fix it (or older equipment) themselves. At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other, it's the same reason why a lot of trucking companies lease the…

I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good business sense. Probably obtained an advanced degree in agriculture science, though not always, some self-educate very successfully. These farmers generally do not like John Deere and think they are overpriced, not as good as they once were, and find the lack of…

4. The BTO (Big Time Operator). Deere has been known to give them very compelling deals that the other manufacturers cannot match. The smaller farmers are more likely to buy used equipment, so this also ensures that when the largest farmers buy Deere, green equipment is what is found on the used lot.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#188

Post by freeopinion »

defenestration wrote: post #172
freeopinion wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Done right, this could actually be better. I own a lawn mower. In fact I usually own two lawn mowers--the new one and the one I just need to repair a bit. All of my neighbors own lawn mowers. We all use our lawn mowers about an hour per week. It's extremely wasteful to purchase 5 lawn mowers to perform 5 hours of mowing per week. We could all hire Suwanda down the street to mow our lawns, but that would cost a lot mo…

I thought about this a lot. What if we just share a lot of tools with our neighbors. It will prevent waste and free up space in your house. However, for me, it's more convenient to have my own tools. I have the freedom to mow the lawn whenever I want. Also on that sunny afternoon when all the other neighbors also want to mow their lawn. And I want a tool that's in the right condition. When I have time to do a job aro…

Absolutely. I completely agree with everything you said. But I still see the benefit in other models. And I wonder what innovation might occur if we spent more time exploring options.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#189

Post by etempleton »

randomdata wrote: post #187
etempleton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good business sense. Probably obtained an advanced degree in agriculture science, though not always, some self-educate very successfully. These farmers generally do not like John Deere and think they are overpriced, not as good as they once were, and find the lack of…

4. The BTO (Big Time Operator). Deere has been known to give them very compelling deals that the other manufacturers cannot match. The smaller farmers are more likely to buy used equipment, so this also ensures that when the largest farmers buy Deere, green equipment is what is found on the used lot.

This is a good point. I also wonder if the service agreements start to make a lot more sense for the BTOs due to scale and so they are less likely to be concerned about the right to repair.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#190

Post by randomdata »

etempleton wrote: post #189
randomdata wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. The BTO (Big Time Operator). Deere has been known to give them very compelling deals that the other manufacturers cannot match. The smaller farmers are more likely to buy used equipment, so this also ensures that when the largest farmers buy Deere, green equipment is what is found on the used lot.

This is a good point. I also wonder if the service agreements start to make a lot more sense for the BTOs due to scale and so they are less likely to be concerned about the right to repair.

A lot, I dare say even most, of the new equipment is leased to the first generation customers. They will run them for a year, two tops, and then it will go out on the used market for the 'regular' farmers to buy. You won't find much concern about ownership agreements when they are renting the equipment.
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