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Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

paulgraham.com

231–240 of 321 posts

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#231

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

>Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all? IMO, not enough meditation or psychedelic use. On his podcast sometime this year, Sam Harris said something to the effect of "Why am I so sure that we are capable of moving past these politics of identity? That one does not have to so strongly, or at all, identify with their gender or race or country? Because I know that one does not eve…

Just replace psychedelics with stoner music (or whatever makes you stay in trance), you dont need to use always substances.

Writing helps sometimes, specially at late night when you begin to lose taboos and feel more talk-ative.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#232

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

// “I’m a dog person, not a cat person,” and other such bizarreness. Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all?

This is a powerful concept. When I studied yogic philosophy, the teacher pointed out how our language biases us towards identification.

"I am hungry" in English reads like a statement of identity, whereas "j'ai faim" in French for example means "I HAVE a hunger". The hunger exists but it doesn't define my identity.

This identification is a lie. If you stop drinking coffee and start drinking tea, you are still 100% you, plus you have evolved (whatever information caused you to switch your preference must be new to you)

This gets into self limitation very quickly. "I AM bad at public speaking" means you don't try. "I don't HAVE public speaking skills" leaves room for choice to improve.

There are a few things that are core values to who you really are. Those are important. Your choice of beverage isn't.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#233

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

Putting it in terms I’ve seen used in sales training, people proactively respond to fear rather than personal betterment.

From a sales perspective it becomes phrasing: “This will cost you $5,000 over the next 3 years if you don’t buy.”

Vs “You will save $5,000...”

People purchase something like 60% more often when using the fear inducing “cost you” phrasing.

From a political standpoint, everything is driven by creating fear of the other party.

Did you know that Republicans are all racist bigots who want you to be poor?

Did you know that Democrats are all lazy, naive communists who want to control everyone’s lives and will bankrupt the entire country while taking away your guns so you can’t protect your family?

Did you know Libertarians are all anarchists who want complete every man for himself chaos with no roads?

It’s always “fear of other” marketing.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#234
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking with people I consider to be very smart and intellectual. We were discussing the California propositions. They did not want to hear the specifics of the propositions. They only wanted to know which organizations were supporting which propositions. This is what political discourse is these days. Figuring out which team you're on based on what political influencers agree with you. Nobody bothers to unders…

Why is this a problem? If there's a proposition out there the wording is going to be sufficiently dense that it's not super-likely a casual observer will have a good grasp of it's actual effect, whereas if you're gay and the local LGBTQI support organizations are coming out in favor of a proposition, then it's fairly unlikely this is something you want to oppose. There's a big difference between "this political party…

> if you're gay and the local LGBTQI support organizations are coming out in favor of a proposition, then it's fairly unlikely this is something you want to oppose.

Let's agree to disagree on this. I think it is a bad assumption to think that activist organizations actually "represent" the larger associated community. It is much more likely they they are advocating for the ideas of the vocal leadership of the organization and not for the membership or the larger associated community.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#235

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

// “I’m a dog person, not a cat person,” and other such bizarreness. Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all? This is a powerful concept. When I studied yogic philosophy, the teacher pointed out how our language biases us towards identification. "I am hungry" in English reads like a statement of identity, whereas "j'ai faim" in French for example means "I HAVE a hunger". The hun…

>"I am hungry" in English reads like a statement of identity, whereas "j'ai faim" in French for example means "I HAVE a hunger". The hunger exists but it doesn't define my identity.

>This identification is a lie. If you stop drinking coffee and start drinking tea, you are still 100% you,

Your analysis of "I am hungry" is incorrect. In this case, the "am" is acting as a linking word and not about identity. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copula_(linguistics)

Or put another way, "I am hungry" can be thought of as a shortened version of "I am [currently having feelings of] hunger". If the more verbose sentence is not about identity but sensation, the shortened version is expressing the same idea.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#236
I think this post was fair in 2009, where there was no serious discussions (specifically in the US, certainly many parallels in Europe) over a second civil war or balkanization, a growing Marxist movement, etc. But, times have changed dramatically. To some degree people have to “pick a side”, and it may be to a greater degree in the coming decades. Instability looks inevitable. In other words, being “open-minded” and a “free-thinker” is beginning to seem like a whimsical privilege of the fading Pax Americana.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#237

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

// “I’m a dog person, not a cat person,” and other such bizarreness. Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all? This is a powerful concept. When I studied yogic philosophy, the teacher pointed out how our language biases us towards identification. "I am hungry" in English reads like a statement of identity, whereas "j'ai faim" in French for example means "I HAVE a hunger". The hun…

You may be interested in E-Prime, "a version of the English language that excludes all forms of the verb to be".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#238

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

// “I’m a dog person, not a cat person,” and other such bizarreness. Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all? This is a powerful concept. When I studied yogic philosophy, the teacher pointed out how our language biases us towards identification. "I am hungry" in English reads like a statement of identity, whereas "j'ai faim" in French for example means "I HAVE a hunger". The hun…

This tidbit on language sounds deep and insightful, but it really isn't. French people and culture have just as many issues with identity and identity politics. If not more so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_groups_in_th...

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#239

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

I was talking with people I consider to be very smart and intellectual. We were discussing the California propositions. They did not want to hear the specifics of the propositions. They only wanted to know which organizations were supporting which propositions. This is what political discourse is these days. Figuring out which team you're on based on what political influencers agree with you. Nobody bothers to unders…

Unfortunately people are required to take positions on an inordinately large amount of issues by social pressure and also by participatory politics at several levels.

Just staying moderately up to date with the issues is a full time job, which most people cannot afford to perform alongside their running commitments.

Most people just outsource their thinking on most issues to a shaky trust structure based on moral myths, and feel righteous and enlightened about it.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#240
I want to agree with a lot of this, but I think there is a lot that is more complicated than this essay allows for.

Consider in the footnote:

> There may be some things it's a net win to include in your identity. For example, being a scientist... A scientist isn't committed to believing in natural selection in the same way a bibilical literalist is committed to rejecting it.

The comparison of "scientist" to "biblical literalist" is, when you think about it, sort of an odd one. Creationists get a lot of press, but strict creationists make up a minority of religious people (depending on how the question is asked, something like a third of Evangelicals believe in Creationism according to https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/how-many-c..., and even less of other Christian religious groups). It's kind of like comparing Thomas Aquinas to the pseudo-scientist Aliens guy from History channel. After all something like a third of all US adults believe that some UFOs have been alien space craft (https://news.gallup.com/poll/350096/americans-believe-ufos.a...... meaning many more Americans believe that we've been visited by aliens than believe in Young Earth Creationism). At the same time, Aquinas's Summa was structured around surfacing objections to religious hypotheses of the day.

But whether the "scientist" label really is as Graham says is debatable. For one example: I wrote a paper in college for a class in Artificial Intelligence, where we were assigned to pick a problem and write about how people solved it. I wrote about some AI approaches taken to learning the suffixes of English words. As I dug, I found that there were two really well entrench camps between Connectionist (people who favored approaches using Neural Networks) and Symbolist (people who favored approaches like decision trees). There was a several-years back and forth between the two camps, and they were pretty clearly not "following the evidence wherever it leads." Whenever the authors were comparing their own algorithms to the other side's, they used the best version of their own but a mediocre version of the other's algorithm. Perhaps though this examples serves to bolster Graham's larger hypothesis, that people don't like to consider things that go against their identity, as the scientists in question clearly identified as Connectionist and Symbolist camps.

I don't know how pervasive it is among scientists, but given the frequency it comes up in the EconTalk podcast as the host talks with academics, it seems like it is pretty common for scientists, being humans, to fall into the same trap of identifying with their own work.

On the other hand, many (not all, but many) of the theologians I've read actually do a pretty good job of following the evidence where it leads. Or, in many cases, where it led them, as many of the most compelling theologians are converts. CS Lewis is a pretty famous example - and his book Surprised by Joy is a great account of simply following the evidence. Thomas Merton is another good modern example, as is Peter Kreeft. Of course, St. Augustine's Confessions is still the archetype of this conversion story. So I don't think it's as simple as "religion = labels, science = pursuit of truth" in the way Graham portrays it.

> If people can't think clearly about anything that has become part of their identity...

Graham does make note in the opening that people often make arguments for which they have not much evidence, but there is a gap between "people can't think clearly" and "people don't think clearly." There are plenty of examples of people thinking clearly about things where are part of their identity, as there are plenty of examples of people including something in their identity because they've thought clearly about something. One of my favorite quotes from GK Chesterton is "the object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." Yes, some people use labels as security blankets. But plenty of people apply labels only after a long-fought intellectual struggle. Chesterton is himself an example of this, as he describes in his own writing how he embraced the label "orthodox" after a circuitous route of trying to discover truth for himself.

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