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Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

farms.com

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Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#101

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

hackbinary wrote: post #88

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community) JD is moving to a Tracto…

> JD is moving to a Tractor as a Service model.

Part of the problem here is that in any other sort of -as-a-service model, you'd be paying MUCH less for the "service" than the . In this case, you're buying the capital equipment, and then being forced to buy a service contract in order to use it as expected, and keep it running. It'd be like buying an iPhone, needing to rent iCloud storage to make it convenient, not being able to service it (in any meaningful way), and then only being able to run apps from the App Store. Oh, wait. It's the same problem, with the same ethical and moral conundrum. In our society, a lot of us have accepted this deal for a $1,000 phone. However, it's a bit different when you're shelling out upwards of half a million for a modern tractor.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#102

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

hackbinary wrote: post #88

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community) JD is moving to a Tracto…

> JD sees this coming and wants to be in the best possible position to market its services to land owners.

You may be right, but, if so, this is just another move by a massive corporation to create a vertical monopoly, and extract all the rent in the space. For at least a couple of decades, companies with massive fleets of tractors sweep through the country, working farm fields for the owners, as the seasons change across the states. Your statement makes it seem as if JD could be muscling in on this already-muscled market. Tractors have already been priced out of a lot of farmer's businesses. They may as well cut out these middlemen.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#103

Post by sequesteredmar »

GuB-42 wrote: post #48
beckman466 wrote: post #2

> A few decades ago, any given farmer often had the skills and tools needed to quickly make repairs if their machinery broke down. These days, however, it’s not so straightforward. Most modern farm equipment is technologically advanced, containing computers and sensors that collect and transmit data. As a result, specific software tools are typically necessary to address mechanical failures and other issues. > Howeve…

In fact, the pattern is that people don't want to spend a lot of money upfront and companies like sustained income. So given the choice between a $50k tractor which cannot be repaired unless you pay a lot of money and an easy to repair $100k tractor, both farmers and manufacturers will chose the first option. Of course, farmers want an easy to repair $50k tractor, but manufacturers have to make money. And manufacture…

It isn't about maintenance itself, it's limiting that maintenance to the manufacturer only artificially where it could be done by anyone.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#104

Post by syshum »

buro9 wrote: post #37

No-one wants to sell hardware any longer, it's not as profitable as providing it on a subscription (dare we say "rent") and forcing all support, maintenance and additions to go through your channels as part of the subscription package. Unfortunately this trend is everywhere now. It happened to servers, media, has started to happen to cars... but it's happened already to agricultural hardware. Super profitable if you…

Post Ownership society where MBA's have decided that it better to have high OPEX and no CAPEX .....

Higher TCO, lower ROI, but hey those quarterly reports look great...

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#105

Post by throwaway0a5e »

theshrike79 wrote: post #36
sackerhews wrote: post #6

Making something that only you can repair can be quite a lucrative business. This documentary is quite interesting: McDonalds Ice Cream Machines Are Always Broken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4

A similar thing is happening with EVs. Many car dealers don't make their money from selling cars, they make most of their money from being the only authorized repair shop for said car model. And to keep the warranty valid, you need to service the car at an authorized shop. EVs, by design, don't require as much maintenance or as often as ICE cars. This will result in a disruption in the existing chain at some point. W…

Some dealers make bank on the service.

Some dealers are basically in the business of originating loans.

It all depends on how the owner happens to structure the business.

Often you'll have multiple dealers in the same network that take a different route because that's what works for their brand and location niches.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#107

Post by sequesteredmar »

cowl wrote: post #82
petewailes wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An old Belarus 420A is a simple tractor. Even a modern 742 or 1220 isn't that complex. But it's simply not as capable as a Fastrac 4 or 8 series, or a Valtra N or C series, or a Deere 6, 7 or 8 series for example. They're just not in the same league in terms of what they can do with tool management, fitness for specific tasks or tool interop. As a single example, there's nothing that Belarus make that I'd want to use…

But isn't this self-defeating reasoning? on one side you say things need to be simpler to repair, on the other you say simple technology doesn't cover your needs. A lot of these advanced features are so complex and so intertwined to each other that you really want only a qualified person to be able to "try to fix it"

Should there not be the option to break whatever you own however you want to? People who know they can fix X should be allowed to fix X

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#108

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

_wldu wrote: post #69

I wonder why JD does not make a large simple tractor that is mostly mechanical and hydraulic using standard/common parts and sell them at a higher price? They could advertise them to be owner repairable to justify the higher price. It seems there is a demand.

In a properly-functioning market, it seems as though this would be an opportunity for a competitor. You have to wonder why this isn't happening.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#109

Post by syshum »

hackbinary wrote: post #88

Farmers do not want to pay for anything. My dealings with people in the farming community is that completely devalue everything around as a négociation tactic. They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything. In general, I don't work for or with them anymore because of the horrible way I have been treated by them. (bit generalised, but I spend 10 years working in the community) JD is moving to a Tracto…

>>They do not want to pay anymore than they have to for anything

So let me ask you, when you take your car in for service and the mechanic says "that will be $100", do you say "no no I can afford $150 so that is what I am going to pay"?

it seems odd to me that you believe only farmers do not want to pay "more than they have to for anything", I am pretty sure that applies to all persons, and all businesses

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#110

Post by syshum »

tim333 wrote: post #92
dncornholio wrote: post #33

I mean, if two of the biggest companies of the world, Apple and Tesla can get away with it, why not the rest of the markets? This trend needs to stop. I cannot fathom how anyone thought preventing farmers, FARMERS for crying out loud, the people who grow our goddamn food, from repairing their equipment is way, way beyond me..

Apple's not that bad really. Typed from an 8 year old Apple with replaced battery, ssd and keyboard.

Search Louis Rossman if you really believe that

Apple is the poster child for hostility to independent repair

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