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Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

paulgraham.com

181–190 of 321 posts

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#181

You might not always have control over what identities you’re attributed to. For example if you are an immigrant, based on your home country, you may have an identity assigned to you by the destination society even if it isn’t factual. You might ignore it and remind yourself not to care too much about it (try to keep your identity small) but when you have a harder time finding an apartment even when you’re qualified…

And even if you do choose your identity, you seldom have the luxury of choosing whether it is controversial or not.

PG has spent the majority of his adult life promoting the "hacker" identity and forming communities for such people. A bit rich for him to tell others to put their identity back into their box because strongly believing in the merits of a particular religious belief, political cause or cultural identity turns out to create more conflict than strongly believing in solving problems with software

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#182

If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key…

>Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all? IMO, not enough meditation or psychedelic use. On his podcast sometime this year, Sam Harris said something to the effect of "Why am I so sure that we are capable of moving past these politics of identity? That one does not have to so strongly, or at all, identify with their gender or race or country? Because I know that one does not eve…

It’s easy to pretend your physical characteristics don’t matter when people don’t discriminate against you based on them.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#184
post #38

I’m confounded by the advice to avoid conflict by restricting one’s identity. By all means, don’t conflate your preference with your identity. But this is an awful way to address people whose actual experienced identity is needlessly a source of conflict. I spent most of my life shielding myself from admitting I’m queer, and nearly all of it shielding myself from admitting I’m non-binary and admitting I’m autistic, u…

You can acknowledge your preferences without making them your identity, though. E.g. you can admit to yourself that you are attracted to a variety of genders without thinking of yourself as being queer.

> you can admit to yourself that you are attracted to a variety of genders without thinking of yourself as being queer.

Sure, I can think of myself as bisexual instead, which I do. (tongue in cheek)

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, bisexuality can't not be part of my identity. Like @eyelidlessness, it took a long time to come to the conclusion. It affects how others see me, how they treat me, if they'll date me, etc. It caused heartbreak, depression, and so on. These are all experiences that set me apart from most other people, whether I want them to or not. If that's not identity, I don't know what is. As one ages and settles down, these things can become less central to your identity, but they're still there and important. Stoicism is one thing, but dismissing the difficulties experienced when going against the grain in any area of life is wishful thinking.

I think Paul Graham could have gone one step further in his analysis. Identity is the combination of labels, community and emotion. Labels are very valuable tools as shortcuts in discussions. They can also lead to dissonance, when definitions don't align or context is missing.

The community aspect, especially in rainbow or mental health issues (not an exhaustive list), can be critical to well-being and survival. Could you find the same support network somewhere else? Yes, and plenty of people do, but that doesn't discount the value of the Pride movement or the Trevor project, for instance. The downside of community is it can evoke tribalistic tendencies.

What Graham seems to take issue with most is the emotional component of one's identity. What's relevant here is not whether you have emotions about your identity, but whether you can set them aside long enough to have a dispassionate discussion. It does require that participants have a healthy emotional baseline, are mature enough not to take everything personally and retain an open mind.

I feel it's also important to point out that there is a difference between having an identity and being an identitarian. You can be bisexual without being an activist. You can be an activist without going full woke and thinking of every interaction as power balances and oppression dynamics.

We can choose whether it becomes a central part of our lives, whether we need to surround ourselves with only like-minded people or whether we enter into discussions looking to be offended, be right or exchange ideas. In that sense, it's no different from having a political opinion, a profession, musical tastes, a hobby or anything else.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#185
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun realization I made over the past 18 months or so after 6 years living in USA continuously: When you're white, you can't be an immigrant. This whole time I thought I was a plucky immigrant seeking a better life (economically). Turns out I was and am just white. Still grappling with this. Learning your identity was wrong is very discombobulating. On some level it feels like maybe I've been here long enough that I'v…

Hey there just wanted to say : not everyone in America thinks like this. there is this strange brand of modern racism where people reduce everything down to a race issue even when it is not. Ergo immigrant = not white. Same type of people that will claim that a given communities lack of resources is because it is a black community, ignoring that the community is poor and that there is a white community not 20 miles a…

>Ironically, this seems to come from highly educated individuals whom I suspect have never 1) been to a third world country, off the resort 2) lived in a financially struggling household 3) worked an honest day of manual labor ever.

is programming the common denominator between them?

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens for people leaving the USA (and other countries) too. They're not immigrants, they're ex-pats!

This doesn't mean the same thing though. If they are working abroad with the intention of returning, then expatriate is the correct term.

Work migrant is even more correct.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#187
I think this has something to do with our desire to be consistent. If we keep small identity, we will flip flop often in our views. It may be a worse strategy when viewed purely in terms of reward maximization.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#188
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking with people I consider to be very smart and intellectual. We were discussing the California propositions. They did not want to hear the specifics of the propositions. They only wanted to know which organizations were supporting which propositions. This is what political discourse is these days. Figuring out which team you're on based on what political influencers agree with you. Nobody bothers to unders…

Why is this a problem? If there's a proposition out there the wording is going to be sufficiently dense that it's not super-likely a casual observer will have a good grasp of it's actual effect, whereas if you're gay and the local LGBTQI support organizations are coming out in favor of a proposition, then it's fairly unlikely this is something you want to oppose. There's a big difference between "this political party…

It is not a problem until it becomes a default way of thinking. If you don’t care about a law proposal, yes, why not default to the position of an organization you believe you share opinions with.

But if you do care, like it’s a topic that matters to you, or when you do engage in a political debate, it should be your duty as a citizen to have your own point of view and to be ok to change it whenever needed. If you can’t do that, you are not ready for political discussion or debates.

And it’s totally ok to answer « I don’t know / I don’t care about this topic » when invited to give your point. « Why should I care? » is totally ok if you think there is something.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#189
post #168

You might not always have control over what identities you’re attributed to. For example if you are an immigrant, based on your home country, you may have an identity assigned to you by the destination society even if it isn’t factual. You might ignore it and remind yourself not to care too much about it (try to keep your identity small) but when you have a harder time finding an apartment even when you’re qualified…

Supporting a political candidate is not , in any possible way "similar" to being an immigrant or a child of immigrant parents, as a social identity.

Through my societal lense (as a grandchild of four immigrants) I view similarities, in that: their immigration was a deliberate and drastic choice, one made in response to the perceived inability to influence some desired political change. Often immigration is a follow-up choice due to fear or repricussions from the choice to support a desired political candidate (think political refugees). That being said, people don't typically get to choose the one(s) who parent them.

Edit: I say this as someone who greatly values a culture where social identies are self selected (or nor ;-) as well as mutable.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#190
> people can never have a fruitful argument about something that's part of their identity. By definition they're partisan.

That is definitely not true. Say, I identify as male. It's a part of my identity. Not only can I discuss it in a civilized way, I'm also curious to learn and discover how the concept of masculinity evolved over the ages, how the society conditions males into their roles and so on. It's not identity that counts here but openness to explore and learn.

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