Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#31

Post by sid0 » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:07 AM UTC

shii wrote: post #26

asadotzler wrote: post #21

It's my opinion that when you call a Thunderbird developer "some simian" and when you tell them to "Die die die die" and "Seriously, screw you" and you say things like "You know, every time I see a comment from [a specific Thunderbird developer] I just want to reach out through the intertubes and cut off his damned fingers to prevent him ever writing any code..." and when you're warned in a very civil tone with a cle…

You're right, he is being a little abrasive there, but I'd take it in stride and enjoy; this sort of thing is normal on the Internet. And besides, he's right. Why did they replace cmd-f like that?

You're right, he is being a little abrasive there, but I'd take it in stride and enjoy; this sort of thing is normal on the Internet.

That doesn't mean it needs to be tolerated. While such behaviour might be common on places like Xbox Live, I haven't seen anything like that on HN, for instance.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#32

Post by asadotzler » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:08 AM UTC

vijaydev wrote: post #11

MrUnknown wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was being a complete idiot in his bug report. The moderator stated that he has been warned many times before. He completely deserved to be banned after being warned that his actions will result in being banned. Sure, he is submitting bug reports, but his childish behavior shouldn't have to be tolerated because of this.

We don't know the earlier instances where he was warned. IMHO, this particular bug report doesn't seem to be out of line with the rules here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html

But you could look if you wanted to. How about when he called Thunderbird developers simians and said he wanted to cut off their hands so they couldn't program any more? Is that out of line enough for you? What about saying "screw you" and calling developers children. I consider all of that out of line. He was being a bully and he got banned for it. Good on Dan Mosedale. Bullies suck and we shouldn't let them pollute our communities with their abuse.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#33

Post by asadotzler » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:08 AM UTC

bdfh42 wrote: post #8

jerrya wrote: post #3

Richard Mlynarik is a hacker with a deservedly excellent reputation. And sometimes he has a sharp tongue which in context can be both enjoyable and terrifying. But here's the important part for entrepreneurs: what percentage of users of mozilla products or any product bother to submit bug reports? What Richard is doing here is investing his time into making Mozilla better. I am always amazed at the projects and compa…

Correct - it was a great bug report. Without the expression of frustration then the nature of the bug would not have been clear. Reports like this from my customers would be brilliant.

Would you like your customers saying "screw you" and "I want to cut off your hands so you can't program any more"? I wouldn't.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#34

Post by asadotzler » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:10 AM UTC

shii wrote: post #20

jerrya wrote: post #3

Richard Mlynarik is a hacker with a deservedly excellent reputation. And sometimes he has a sharp tongue which in context can be both enjoyable and terrifying. But here's the important part for entrepreneurs: what percentage of users of mozilla products or any product bother to submit bug reports? What Richard is doing here is investing his time into making Mozilla better. I am always amazed at the projects and compa…

Richard Mlynarik is one of the developers for XEmacs and has contributed to coreutils in GNU. open up your terminal and type in man whoami.

And that gives him the right to be a bully? To say he'd like to cut off a Thunderbird developers hands so he can't program any more? To call developers simians? Nothing gives anyone the right to come into Mozilla's Bugzilla and behave like that.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#35

Post by arihant » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:11 AM UTC

If someone writes that kind of bug report for code that I write, the first thing I would do is take my shoe and beat myself to death. The man being frustrated is your fault. High chances there are million others who feel the same, at least he is conveying it to you. You're shooting the messenger here.

If your critics give up on you and stop telling you how much you suck and how much they hate you, that's a very bad place to be in.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#36

Post by asadotzler » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:11 AM UTC

vijaydev wrote: post #5

wladimir wrote: post #4

Good. When filing bug reports you should try to work with the team and be as helpful as possible in solving the issue. Being a dick does not help anyone.

Expressing frustrations is not being a dick.

Calling people names and saying you'd like to physically maim them so they cannot program any more is being a dick. Yes, it really is.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#37

Post by vijaydev » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:14 AM UTC

asadotzler wrote: post #32

vijaydev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know the earlier instances where he was warned. IMHO, this particular bug report doesn't seem to be out of line with the rules here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html

But you could look if you wanted to. How about when he called Thunderbird developers simians and said he wanted to cut off their hands so they couldn't program any more? Is that out of line enough for you? What about saying "screw you" and calling developers children. I consider all of that out of line. He was being a bully and he got banned for it. Good on Dan Mosedale. Bullies suck and we shouldn't let them pollute…

Yes, I saw one in a link posted above. Definitely out of line. No second thoughts on that. If the ban had happened in reply to one such post, it would have been unquestioned by many.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#38

Post by asadotzler » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:15 AM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #14

MrUnknown wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was being a complete idiot in his bug report. The moderator stated that he has been warned many times before. He completely deserved to be banned after being warned that his actions will result in being banned. Sure, he is submitting bug reports, but his childish behavior shouldn't have to be tolerated because of this.

If this report is representative, I don't think a thousand similar reports would deserve a ban. There's some exasperation, some sarcasm, some foot-stomping while expressing strong opinions. But there's no profanity or insults. The strongest negative word used is 'stupid', and it's applied to a question in the UI, not any person. The details and rationale for considering the software's behavior an interaction faux pas…

You missed the reports where he called developers simians, shouted "screw you" and said he'd like to cut off a specific developers hands so he couldn't code any more. (by the way, bugzilla is totally searchable, so if you want, you can see this stuff for yourself before you step up to defend a bully.)

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#39

Post by vijaydev » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:16 AM UTC

asadotzler wrote: post #36

vijaydev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expressing frustrations is not being a dick.

Calling people names and saying you'd like to physically maim them so they cannot program any more is being a dick. Yes, it really is.

Again, my original comment was in reply to this particular report. I've not read any of the old reports at that time.

Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports

#40

Post by shii » Fri, Jul 08, 2011, 10:16 AM UTC

adw wrote: post #29

shii wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, he is being a little abrasive there, but I'd take it in stride and enjoy; this sort of thing is normal on the Internet. And besides, he's right. Why did they replace cmd-f like that?

Why should we accept unnecessarily abrasive behaviour as acceptable anywhere?

Because sometimes actually helpful bug reports come packaged with snarky people. I see little problem with that. There's guys like zedshaw who always flame and get flamed, yet still provide lots of value. Plus it livens things up a bit. Nothing wrong with a little sarcastic banter here and there. Some people have their panties in a tight knot sometimes over some silly things.

Not everything has to be so srs bznss all the time folks.

From this banning, Mozilla has just lost a useful bug reporter and one of the founding fathers of GNU.