It's my opinion that when you call a Thunderbird developer "some simian" and when you tell them to "Die die die die" and "Seriously, screw you" and you say things like "You know, every time I see a comment from [a specific Thunderbird developer] I just want to reach out through the intertubes and cut off his damned fingers to prevent him ever writing any code..." and when you're warned in a very civil tone with a clear explanation of why your approach is hurting rather than helping https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=579372#c3 and you still come back with more of that same approach, I think being banned from Bugzilla is a perfectly reasonable thing.
Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
21–30 of 119 posts
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#22Richard Mlynarik is a hacker with a deservedly excellent reputation. And sometimes he has a sharp tongue which in context can be both enjoyable and terrifying. But here's the important part for entrepreneurs: what percentage of users of mozilla products or any product bother to submit bug reports? What Richard is doing here is investing his time into making Mozilla better. I am always amazed at the projects and compa…
Agreed. Any bug report from a user is valuable - the fact that he was frustrated enough to report it means that there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
If this report is representative, I don't think a thousand similar reports would deserve a ban. There's some exasperation, some sarcasm, some foot-stomping while expressing strong opinions. But there's no profanity or insults. The strongest negative word used is 'stupid', and it's applied to a question in the UI, not any person. The details and rationale for considering the software's behavior an interaction faux pas…
No, if there's a track record of obscene bug reports, then the person involved shouldn't be given even the slightest bit of slack. edit: if I were dmose, I'd have banned him a year ago for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=579372#c2 .
If they need to punish obscene reports, punish for those, specifically. When they happen. Don't punish a mild, non-obscene report some other time.
edit for your edit: Thanks for finding an earlier clearer example. That comment was unnecessarily personal and abusive. It deserved reprimand or censure. And if the reprimand(s) are responsible for the less-personal tone of the 2011-06-30 comment, compared to the 2010-07-21 comment, they're working to increase the signal-to-emotional-noise ratio. But the controversy of a hard ban for a lesser transgression now introduces new emotional noise.
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#24How on earth does that deserve a ban? Mozilla would hate to have Linus Torvalds as a contributor.
> How on earth does that deserve a ban? That does not deserve a ban in and of itself. Repeated instances of that following warnings of unacceptable behavior, on the other hand, does. It would seem Richard here was in the second situation: > You've been warned repeatedly about the Bugzilla Etiquette rules, and you're still failing to respect them.
The "offender" could/should be more polite, but enforcing etiquette mustn't stifle progress.
I don't mind the downvotes, but could you add why you disagree?
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
He was being a complete idiot in his bug report. The moderator stated that he has been warned many times before. He completely deserved to be banned after being warned that his actions will result in being banned. Sure, he is submitting bug reports, but his childish behavior shouldn't have to be tolerated because of this.
If this report is representative, I don't think a thousand similar reports would deserve a ban. There's some exasperation, some sarcasm, some foot-stomping while expressing strong opinions. But there's no profanity or insults. The strongest negative word used is 'stupid', and it's applied to a question in the UI, not any person. The details and rationale for considering the software's behavior an interaction faux pas…
[deleted]
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#26It's my opinion that when you call a Thunderbird developer "some simian" and when you tell them to "Die die die die" and "Seriously, screw you" and you say things like "You know, every time I see a comment from [a specific Thunderbird developer] I just want to reach out through the intertubes and cut off his damned fingers to prevent him ever writing any code..." and when you're warned in a very civil tone with a cle…
You're right, he is being a little abrasive there, but I'd take it in stride and enjoy; this sort of thing is normal on the Internet.
And besides, he's right. Why did they replace cmd-f like that?
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, if there's a track record of obscene bug reports, then the person involved shouldn't be given even the slightest bit of slack. edit: if I were dmose, I'd have banned him a year ago for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=579372#c2 .
If they need to punish obscene reports, punish for those, specifically. When they happen. Don't punish a mild, non-obscene report some other time. edit for your edit: Thanks for finding an earlier clearer example. That comment was unnecessarily personal and abusive. It deserved reprimand or censure. And if the reprimand(s) are responsible for the less-personal tone of the 2011-06-30 comment, compared to the 2010-07-2…
While we might disagree on the exact mechanics, I think we can agree that any open-source community would be better without such people.
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
If this report is representative, I don't think a thousand similar reports would deserve a ban. There's some exasperation, some sarcasm, some foot-stomping while expressing strong opinions. But there's no profanity or insults. The strongest negative word used is 'stupid', and it's applied to a question in the UI, not any person. The details and rationale for considering the software's behavior an interaction faux pas…
This, exactly. I don't know Richard but this thread has triggered my curiosity, so I've looked at a few of his bug comments and the pattern is that they are funny and strongly worded, but the strong language isn't directed at a person - it's squarely aimed at the problem.
Morendil, his comments are often very much directed at individuals and not at features or bugs.
Calling a developer a "simian" and shouting "screw you" and actually saying "You know, every time I see a comment from [a specific Thunderbird developer] I just want to reach out through the intertubes and cut off his damned fingers to prevent him ever writing any code" are all direct and personal attacks that should not be tolerated in any forum.
There's nothing "funny" about that. It's the behavior of a bully and someone who thinks that because he's big bad programmer with a long history that he can verbally abuse other programmers when ever he feels like it.
There's nothing funny about bullying.
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#29It's my opinion that when you call a Thunderbird developer "some simian" and when you tell them to "Die die die die" and "Seriously, screw you" and you say things like "You know, every time I see a comment from [a specific Thunderbird developer] I just want to reach out through the intertubes and cut off his damned fingers to prevent him ever writing any code..." and when you're warned in a very civil tone with a cle…
You're right, he is being a little abrasive there, but I'd take it in stride and enjoy; this sort of thing is normal on the Internet. And besides, he's right. Why did they replace cmd-f like that?
Why should we accept unnecessarily abrasive behaviour as acceptable anywhere?
Re: Mozilla now banning people for grumpy bug reports
#30I'd call this "how not to deal with customer feedbacks". If it were paying customers, they'd have none left with this attitude!