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There are no results for tank man

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Re: There are no results for tank man

#571

Post by dang »

rualca wrote: post #568
dang wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite accurate, but even if it were, there are easy ways to improve that bit of software if people start abusing it. You're right that most such software tricks, especially anti-abuse measures, need to be secret in order to stay working.

> That's not quite accurate, but even if it were, there are easy ways to improve that bit of software if people start abusing it. How easy it would be for bad actors brigading with freshly created accounts, or not-so-freshly created accounts with a history of brigading, to abuse this feature to censor stories?

I think I already answered this but I'll put it a different way: (1) not as easy as it sounds; (2) it would be easy to tell that they were doing it; (3) if they do it, we'll improve the software so they can't; (4) if that doesn't work, it's a minor feature and we can easily drop it.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#572

Post by samhw »

dang wrote: post #380
tolbish wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. I would love to see if @dang has addressed this before.

No, I only found out about it from the comment belter linked to. FWIW I think (god help us) fshbbdssbbgdd's explanation sounds plausible. I had a similar instinctive response but not as well thought through. We have banned people in a few cases for serious $BigCo astroturfing but there's always a grey area in the Venn diagram around "PR operation" and "overzealous fan". You can't tell those apart without a smoking gu…

> We have banned people in a few cases for serious $BigCo astroturfing but there's always a grey area in the Venn diagram around "PR operation" and "overzealous fan". You can't tell those apart without a smoking gun and those are hard to come by.

I can attest to this: at one of my old companies a post related to us ended up getting removed, just because so many of our engineers (entirely independently of the company) voted or commented on it. After that there was a very strict instruction from the company _not_ to engage with any posts about us...

Re: There are no results for tank man

#573

Post by asxd »

dang wrote: post #72
kian wrote: post #45

@dang, I think we need an explanation for why Tank Man-related content on Hacker News has been disappearing all day. I usually trust HN to be a bastion of free speech, and if there isn't some kind of proportionate response here, I don't believe myself or many others here will be able to see it that way going forward. EDIT: Thank you for your response, dang. Hacker News is a special place, which is why we have respond…

This post is on the front page right now (edit: and now also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27396783 ) - that's the opposite of "disappearing". I'd have to see links to the other ones. Here's one tip for you guys, from years-long, world-weary experience: if you're coming up with sensational explanations in breathless excitement, it's almost certainly untrue. Edit: ok, here's what happened. Users flagged https:/…

I always really appreciate and learn from the measured perspectives you share here. It really is a bastion in a world that has recently been pretty crazy. Thanks a lot for your hard work, dang.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#574

Post by bingbong70 »

jmpman wrote: post #569
bingbong70 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you seriously believe that the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989 were backed by the CIA? Western intelligence generally rush to protect their assets, or at least they used to... These regime change attempts have been ongoing for about a century, opium/heroin dealers/criminals and their western partners/suppliers didn't like getting shutdown by the Chinese government, primarily Mao. When people ask, "Why is China…

Ok, the CIA, British Secret service, and Jackie Chan helped the protesters escape China. That wasn’t my question. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_for_Democracy_in_Chi... Was the primary driver of the Tiananmen Square protest caused by the CIA? Every credible source I’ve found indicates that the CIA was trying to figure out what was going on, but not initiating the protest. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS…

>Was the primary driver of the Tiananmen Square protest caused by the CIA?

You are saying that if a CIA regime change pattern is detected and the CIA doesn't publicly disclose its covert/overt operations (even as it does expected post-op cleanup), it probably didn't happen? Quite interesting to maintain a permanent state of denial when history says the opposite is more appropriate...

After looking at timeline of CIA destabilization operations (using NGOs, rebel groups, terrorists, etc...) around the world and the constant funding of protests and extremism in China/Tibet/HK... Anyone that can do elementary level pattern recognition can see this for what it is...

This regime change operation extends to the repeated HK protests (many participants are paid to attend) and Xinjiang extremism (participants funded, armed, and trained by the CIA and their partners in Turkey/Syria/Iraq).

Paid HK protestors - https://www.rt.com/op-ed/525596-hong-kong-paid-protests/

Uyghur extremists as a China destabiliser - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=00Cvx0R8iDo

Uyghurs militants conveniently allowed into Syria to help the US overthrow Assad - https://www.timesofisrael.com/uighur-militants-in-syria-look...

Re: There are no results for tank man

#575

Post by slingnow »

seattle_spring wrote: post #337
tinus_hn wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that achieve? Suddenly people see the light and no longer believe there is a conspiracy? Seems rather unlikely to me.

Ideally they'd stick to other forums.

Precisely. They would leave this "toxic" place behind and go somewhere they feel warm and cozy.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#576

Post by int_19h »

JPKab wrote: post #476
wonnage wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this sort of baseless speculation is useful. God forbid a Chinese citizen support their own government without being an agent or brainwashed. Way to deny a billion people the agency to disagree with you. Flagged this comment; US citizen, btw

When you say support their own government you should remember that it's not their own government. They don't have any choice in who represents them unless they are one of the 9% of the population that is a member of the CCP.

Rank and file CCP members don't really get any meaningful choice, either - intraparty governance be nominally democratic, but in practice it's as much of a sham as outside of it. The only way you can have a say is by making a party career to some position that actually matters, which very few members will achieve. The rest are there solely to signal their loyalty and get the associated benefits (or lack of handicaps).

Re: There are no results for tank man

#577

Post by lurkerasdfh8 »

codezero wrote: post #439
lurkerasdfh8 wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It almost feel like the only sane moderation system is to expose as much information as possible to all users? as much as the moderators have?

Seems nice until the intentionally abusive use this information to toe the line or inundate moderation until it’s crippled.

so, my last suggestion + a perfect disposable anonymous pseudonyms system.

infinite troll accounts would ideally be defeated by all the moderation being exposed and distributed. and infinite pseudonyms account would make toe the line efforts too expensive.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#578

Post by jmpman »

bingbong70 wrote: post #574
jmpman wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, the CIA, British Secret service, and Jackie Chan helped the protesters escape China. That wasn’t my question. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_for_Democracy_in_Chi... Was the primary driver of the Tiananmen Square protest caused by the CIA? Every credible source I’ve found indicates that the CIA was trying to figure out what was going on, but not initiating the protest. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS…

>Was the primary driver of the Tiananmen Square protest caused by the CIA? You are saying that if a CIA regime change pattern is detected and the CIA doesn't publicly disclose its covert/overt operations (even as it does expected post-op cleanup), it probably didn't happen? Quite interesting to maintain a permanent state of denial when history says the opposite is more appropriate... After looking at timeline of CIA…

There were multiple countries citizens rising up against socialism in 1989. How many of them were orchestrated by the CIA? From what I have read, only Poland had a direct CIA link.

Another pattern could be that socialist governments repress their citizens by denying freedom of press, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. These citizens hope such freedoms are returned through democratic reform.

I suspect it’s more than just the evil CIA which is advocating for democracy.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#579

Post by Hnrobert42 »

dang wrote: post #198
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, I disagree. This conversation is specifically about a nation exerting censorship across the web. It is not unreasonable to think those censorship efforts would extend to other sites. Moreover, I did not mark the primary thrust of the comment as a nationalistic attack. I took it as an observation that a motivated minority (or a nation-state actor) could game the system to mute a conversation by w…

Edit: argh, I confused you with the GP commenter. I'm terribly sorry! Obviously "you" doesn't mean you in the below. I'm usually more careful but today has been a bit hectic with several high-intensity threads going at once, and evidently I've been dropping packets. --- If you hope Chinese users feel welcome here, you need to make some massive adjustments to the commenting style you exemplified above, because accusin…

I certainly appreciate the apology, but please don’t spend another second worried about it. Wrong account but fair point. And even if not, folks make mistakes.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#580

Post by komali2 »

bingbong70 wrote: post #574
jmpman wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, the CIA, British Secret service, and Jackie Chan helped the protesters escape China. That wasn’t my question. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_for_Democracy_in_Chi... Was the primary driver of the Tiananmen Square protest caused by the CIA? Every credible source I’ve found indicates that the CIA was trying to figure out what was going on, but not initiating the protest. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS…

>Was the primary driver of the Tiananmen Square protest caused by the CIA? You are saying that if a CIA regime change pattern is detected and the CIA doesn't publicly disclose its covert/overt operations (even as it does expected post-op cleanup), it probably didn't happen? Quite interesting to maintain a permanent state of denial when history says the opposite is more appropriate... After looking at timeline of CIA…

The evidence for uighur genocide by the CCP far outstrips what you have here. Uighur participation in CIA action doesn't automatically invalidate the fact that there is a genocide playing out, the same as implied CIA activity in the tiananmen protests doesn't invalidate the civilian's actions or complaints, and it certainly doesn't justify the PLA turning its weapons on its own citizens, any more than the united States' decision to drone strike an American citizen for terrorist group ties can be justified.
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