Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic • Hacker News Board

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#31

Post by api » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

dsomers wrote: post #30

tw04 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. In NYC or Chicago that’s probably not a big deal. In the vast majority of the rest of the US, that’s how you kill a city center. I can tell you in my case, given the homelessness issue that’s been getting worse the las…

Lol, have you been to the Midwest? In small and medium sized cites there downtowns are often dead, including the small city I grew up in. All of them easily accessible by car. Dead city centres in North America more have to do with the post war experiment of subsidizing inefficient sprawling car dependent suburbs. If you want to actually understand this read more from the advocacy group Strong Towns[0] they also have…

That’s not as true as it used to be, but I don’t disagree with the wider point.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#32

Post by frosted-flakes » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

dsomers wrote: post #30

tw04 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. In NYC or Chicago that’s probably not a big deal. In the vast majority of the rest of the US, that’s how you kill a city center. I can tell you in my case, given the homelessness issue that’s been getting worse the las…

Lol, have you been to the Midwest? In small and medium sized cites there downtowns are often dead, including the small city I grew up in. All of them easily accessible by car. Dead city centres in North America more have to do with the post war experiment of subsidizing inefficient sprawling car dependent suburbs. If you want to actually understand this read more from the advocacy group Strong Towns[0] they also have…

If you ban cars they will be even more dead.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#33

Post by teachingassist » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #15

disantlor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am biased but why do we even need cars in the city center, or at the very least why should they be convenient? Could there not be a situation where you walk to the edges of the city center to pick up your car and leave from there? There are specific accessibility concerns that certainly need to be accounted for, but the idea that the average driver loses 20 minutes on a trip that should be 5-10 minutes doesn't seem…

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. In NYC or Chicago that’s probably not a big deal. In the vast majority of the rest of the US, that’s how you kill a city center. I can tell you in my case, given the homelessness issue that’s been getting worse the las…

> that’s how you kill a city center.

This is a function of American cities being poorly designed. You are expected to arrive by car from the sprawling suburbs. I agree with your exceptions, NYC, Chicago: but I'd add, almost every city in Europe, such as the grandparent was talking about.

If this poor design is killed, hopefully something better can arise.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#34

Post by pharmakom » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #15

disantlor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am biased but why do we even need cars in the city center, or at the very least why should they be convenient? Could there not be a situation where you walk to the edges of the city center to pick up your car and leave from there? There are specific accessibility concerns that certainly need to be accounted for, but the idea that the average driver loses 20 minutes on a trip that should be 5-10 minutes doesn't seem…

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. In NYC or Chicago that’s probably not a big deal. In the vast majority of the rest of the US, that’s how you kill a city center. I can tell you in my case, given the homelessness issue that’s been getting worse the las…

Honestly, your money is not worth the congestion, noise and air pollution it requires. It’s a real shame your locality does not provide good rail connections.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#35

Post by dsomers » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

frosted-flakes wrote: post #32

dsomers wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, have you been to the Midwest? In small and medium sized cites there downtowns are often dead, including the small city I grew up in. All of them easily accessible by car. Dead city centres in North America more have to do with the post war experiment of subsidizing inefficient sprawling car dependent suburbs. If you want to actually understand this read more from the advocacy group Strong Towns[0] they also have…

If you ban cars they will be even more dead.

Not true. Go to Leiden Netherlands and see how economically vibrant a small city can become if it incentives efficient land use and limits traffic in city centre in favour of pedestrian paths an public transit.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#36

Post by pharmakom » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #26

jakubp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my town you have largely 4 options: - walk - drive - take a bus/tram - bike Walking is too slow and cumbersome for most people (e.g. 6-8 km one way to work seems like too much to do every day), and impossible if you want to go shopping anywhere except on your way to work. Public transport is really slow and not as flexible as you want (many places without good connections, wait times 15-20 minutes, transit times 2…

Biking is not that susceptible to weather imho. When it rains you can wear a rain coat and rain trousers. When it's cold you can wear any outdoor jacket (gore tex is great even if maybe not healthy). When it snows you have to work a bit harder. When there is ice you can use tires with spikes for great grip. The worst is hot weather, since you can only shed so much clothing. An ebike helps here, but that reduces the h…

Cycling in the rain is only a huge problem when the infrastructure is crap. Riding in a flooded gutter, getting splashed by passing motorists and being left-hooked by people who can’t see clearly through a wet windshield is dangerous and unpleasant. Cycling on a dedicated bike path with good drainage, mud guards and a waterproof is fine, imo.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#37

Post by pharmakom » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #19

gruez wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Extra time: +5 minutes to walk why does removing left turns make it longer to walk? Can pedestrians even make "left" turns?

A lot of times when they pull left turns it means they’re pulling out the stoplights, putting barriers of some kind down the middle and you can’t cross at that spot at all anymore on foot or in a car. If you have to park on the opposite side of the street from where you’re going you may be walking blocks just to cross. Sure you could try jaywalking but that’s probably not a bright move in a lot of cities. I’ll be hon…

Seems like an argument for more pedestrian priority crossings.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#38

Post by dsomers » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

api wrote: post #31

dsomers wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, have you been to the Midwest? In small and medium sized cites there downtowns are often dead, including the small city I grew up in. All of them easily accessible by car. Dead city centres in North America more have to do with the post war experiment of subsidizing inefficient sprawling car dependent suburbs. If you want to actually understand this read more from the advocacy group Strong Towns[0] they also have…

That’s not as true as it used to be, but I don’t disagree with the wider point.

I agree it’s improving from the 90s, but when I go back to the Midwest from Western Europe, the difference is dramatic simply in the number of people downtown in public spaces for cites with the same population.

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#39

Post by disantlor » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #15

disantlor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am biased but why do we even need cars in the city center, or at the very least why should they be convenient? Could there not be a situation where you walk to the edges of the city center to pick up your car and leave from there? There are specific accessibility concerns that certainly need to be accounted for, but the idea that the average driver loses 20 minutes on a trip that should be 5-10 minutes doesn't seem…

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. In NYC or Chicago that’s probably not a big deal. In the vast majority of the rest of the US, that’s how you kill a city center. I can tell you in my case, given the homelessness issue that’s been getting worse the las…

homelessness is a big issue in NYC, it doesn’t seem clear to me that cars have much to do with it, compared to, say, lack of affordable housing. perhaps we could reclaim all the parking space to build more housing

Re: Remove left turns for less dangerous city traffic

#40

Post by mschuetz » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #15

disantlor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am biased but why do we even need cars in the city center, or at the very least why should they be convenient? Could there not be a situation where you walk to the edges of the city center to pick up your car and leave from there? There are specific accessibility concerns that certainly need to be accounted for, but the idea that the average driver loses 20 minutes on a trip that should be 5-10 minutes doesn't seem…

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. In NYC or Chicago that’s probably not a big deal. In the vast majority of the rest of the US, that’s how you kill a city center. I can tell you in my case, given the homelessness issue that’s been getting worse the las…

> As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money.

The bussiest city centers tend to be the least car and most pedestrian friendly ones. Park the car at the border of the center, then walk into the center.