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El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

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Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, Bitcoin appreciated 300% YoY whereas the dollar is in a constantly depreciating cycle, I know which one I'd prefer.

The difference is that the dollar doesn’t drop 30% of it’s value while you’re asleep - something BTC has done multiple times, including recently.

This will stop happening once adopted as reserve currency of major economies.

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#162
If bitcoin does become legal tender in El Salvador, does that mean when a US person spending/exchanging it there (or any where in the world) would not be subject to capital gains tax on the spend/exchange? Currently the IRS states that because bitcoin does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction, it is not a foreign currency. It is only considered a virtual currency and subject to capital gains reporting and tax. But what would happen if bitcoin becomes in both categories at the same time: a virtual currency and a legal tender foreign currency?

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#163
post #8

> Bukele said the country is partnering with digital wallet company, Strike, to build modern financial infrastructure using bitcoin technology. Wow, this seems like an incredibly shitty situation for the people of El Salvador. It looks like some lobbyists got hired by a wallet company stacked with angel investors willing to pour money into the idea of being integrated into the government at such a low level. I wouldn…

> Wow, this seems like an incredibly shitty situation for the people of El Salvador. Indeed it is. The government just mandated that everyone in the country is obligated to use a startup's app, more or less. This has to be one of the most egregious examples of regulatory capture I've seen in a long time. "Legal tender" means that people are legally obligated to accept this as payment. Maybe the law will be broad enou…

Lightning developer here.

I have no idea what their legal definition would be, but lightning is an open standard, and Strike is but one implementation.

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#164
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin will stabilize in time, when it's big enough to absorb short time supply and demand shocks. It will eventually follow the value of all economic activity through its network. The more economic activity, the less volatility in aggregate. There's a huge cost in "stabilizing" a fiat currency, in terms of debt and inflation.

A deflationary coin cannot stabilize without destabilizing the economy that trades in it. https://benoitessiambre.com/specter.html

Nobel Prize winner F.A Hayek, who also famously predicted the denationalization of money in the 1970s[1], provided the excellent counterargument to this in the debate with the proto-Keynesians back in the 30s concerning stable supply money vs. inflationary money:

https://mises.org/library/hayek-paradox-saving

Hayek was later interviewed in the 70s and said he was mystified when Keynes was promoted to godhood upon his death. He claimed the debate had not yet finished.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denationalization_of_Money

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#165
If bitcoin does become legal tender in El Salvador, does that mean when a US person spending/exchanging it there (or any where in the world) would not be subject to capital gains tax on the spend/exchange? Currently the IRS has the position that because bitcoin does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction, it is not a foreign currency. It is only considered a virtual currency and subject to capital gains reporting and tax. But what would happen if bitcoin becomes in both categories at the same time: a virtual currency and a legal tender foreign currency?

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#166
post #149
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is guaranteed to be deflationary as long as there’s a finite limit – if nothing else, lost keys would reduce the total over time. More importantly, the people hawking it _really_ want it to be deflationary because that effectively makes them landed gentry getting richer without any effort on their part. After a decade of that being integral to the sales pitch I would be extremely surprised to see any major ho…

There isn't monetary deflation in bitcoin (expect for lost coins). As a global reserve currency, bitcoin would act as an "index fund of everything". Economy is expected to grow, but it's not guaranteed. Which means that there's always a non-zero risk associated to it. There's more risk on short time scales, and less risk on long time scales.

There will be if it's successful - 90% of the bitcoins ever mined have already been mined, for bitcoin to be useful at a long term world wide level it needs to store enough value even as the size of the world economy grows - if it can't them it will become a limit on economic growth much as gold became in the last century.

So because the number of bitcoin is fixed to remain relevant bitcoin will need to continually deflate (ie increase in value) so that there's enough to represent the size of the economy

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#167
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their work is open source and they are using standard Bitcoin protocols. Zap is their wallet https://zaphq.io Strike is a payment app that uses Bitcoin Lightning network internally to settle payments between financial institutions. It's useful for sending fiat currency denominated remittances instantly and without fees. https://strike.me When they released Strike in El Salvador, it was an instant success. The preside…

Yeah but imagine if you bought a beer for $4 and then next week the beer was actually worth $8 and the next it was worth $7 and then a few months later the beer was worth $50. The whole point of fiat is that it is stable and so you aren't fucking yourself by exchanging it for consumables.

Even if you buy with fiat, you're still giving up the opportunity cost of not buying Bitcoin. All of our pizzas in 2011 could have been millions

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#168
post #39

If creditors were obligated to accept Bitcoin, does that mean that to be a creditor, you must maintain a Bitcoin address/wallet? Or could you still just say, "Sorry, you still have to pay in USD because we don't have a Bitcoin wallet"?

It's concerning that the government has partnered with one particular startup company with a specific Bitcoin app for this. Depending on how the laws are written, essentially forcing people to use a specific startup's app to transact in the country could be the most egregious example of regulatory capture we've seen in recent history.

Lightning developer here. Note that Strike is only one implementation of lightning (it's also open source, and an open standard). It's not even the most popular.

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but imagine if you bought a beer for $4 and then next week the beer was actually worth $8 and the next it was worth $7 and then a few months later the beer was worth $50. The whole point of fiat is that it is stable and so you aren't fucking yourself by exchanging it for consumables.

Why does it matter how many dollars the beer is worth? It is worth the same number of bitcoins yesterday, today, and tomorrow. That's the only stability that is relevant.

If you believe that, I have a pizza to sell you. Same eternal price as that famous pizza from 2010: 10,000 bitcoins.
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