Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

adrianb.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 67 posts

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#51

Post by deckard1 »

lmilcin wrote: post #23
alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

At least in Quake this was not deliberate choice. It was fortunate accident. It took some time for people to discover bunny hopping and once somebody figured it out it took like a storm. Hopping wasn't discovered immediately. I remember we were doing things like strafing into walls to speed up movement before we knew bunny hops are possible. I don't think idSoftware predicted how the game would be used when they were…

it's not really surprising a bug like bunny hopping would exist, either. You have to realize at the time that everyone was coming from Doom and was still using keyboard movement. I was using keyboard movement in Quake. It wasn't until I joined in with a few friends in QuakeWorld that someone said "hey, you really need to start using a mouse to play." You could get away with keyboard in single player, but even back then you would get stomped by the mouselook players.

What's amusing is you could always tell the keyboard players back then, by the way they slowly turned around.

Anyway, playing with the mouse was a new thing. Mouse acceleration, dpi, etc. were all just experiments. Introducing a new way to move would surely uncover bugs hidden in the physics code that simply weren't possible to hit with keyboard movement.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#52

Post by alkonaut »

oblak wrote: post #50
alkonaut wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misinterpreted a timeline here.

Really? Cause I remember attending Quake tournaments before CS was a thing. Things didn't even start with Quake, as there was also Doom. I understand if such games are not to your liking but they did exist

I mean I think you misinterpreted my post.

But instead of going back to read it again you misinterpreted my reply too (thinking I somehow was insisting on the thing you misinterpreted the first time!)

To be clear: all I said was 1) I played FPS’es for as long as they have existed (early 90s) 2) I played CS competitively. These two things are of course separate things and happened about a decade apart.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#55

Post by Fnoord »

lmilcin wrote: post #23
alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

At least in Quake this was not deliberate choice. It was fortunate accident. It took some time for people to discover bunny hopping and once somebody figured it out it took like a storm. Hopping wasn't discovered immediately. I remember we were doing things like strafing into walls to speed up movement before we knew bunny hops are possible. I don't think idSoftware predicted how the game would be used when they were…

> It took some time for people to discover bunny hopping

IMO back then you discovered it either by just playing, or by reading a game magazine. Back then (when Quake II was released), internet guides for games were less streamlined and available. Which was fun for gaming, as you could discover things on your own. It also meant things had to be less min-maxed. Think of a game like World of Warcraft or Diablo when it was just released, they have the very same problem.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#56

Post by cma »

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

It may be similar to fighting game motion inputs. They seem archaic and pointless when the same moveset can be expressed with just direction + button or something less complicated, but there are lots of analysis videos on why they have stuck around and the subtle differences in gameplay from them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WhbSNP_zF4

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#57

Post by oblak »

alkonaut wrote: post #52
oblak wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Cause I remember attending Quake tournaments before CS was a thing. Things didn't even start with Quake, as there was also Doom. I understand if such games are not to your liking but they did exist

I mean I think you misinterpreted my post. But instead of going back to read it again you misinterpreted my reply too (thinking I somehow was insisting on the thing you misinterpreted the first time!) To be clear: all I said was 1) I played FPS’es for as long as they have existed (early 90s) 2) I played CS competitively. These two things are of course separate things and happened about a decade apart .

You are completely right. Sorry about that.

Guess I got too excited there for a second

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#59

Post by enriquto »

IQunder130 wrote: post #32
enriquto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

accelerations map directly to actions of the user (forces). It seems fairly natural, not strange, to control velocities and positions in terms of accelerations. The same thing happens in real life.

That's not the strange thing. The strange thing is limiting it on a projection rather than the magnitude of the velocity vector.

applying a force perpendicular to the velocity does not change the speed, only the direction. Only the component of the force tangent to the velocity vector (the projection) is relevant for controlling the max speed

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#60

Post by IQunder130 »

enriquto wrote: post #59
IQunder130 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the strange thing. The strange thing is limiting it on a projection rather than the magnitude of the velocity vector.

applying a force perpendicular to the velocity does not change the speed, only the direction. Only the component of the force tangent to the velocity vector (the projection) is relevant for controlling the max speed

They're not measuring the projection of the acceleration vector on the velocity vector, they're measuring the projection of the velocity vector on the acceleration vector and limiting that. Which makes no sense for a speed limiting method as evidenced by the fact that strafejumping exists. What you said is true and also irrelevant.

To get a true speed limit you would compute the new velocity vector, compute its magnitude and rescale the components by the ratio under the limit. Which is slightly more computationally expensive I suppose.

Post reply on HN