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Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

blogs.forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#71

Post by abecedarius »

barista wrote: post #50
crizCraig wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Google do the same thing to Microsoft? Google has shareholders. If they did, I would lose respect for Google that I have already lost for Miscrosoft. Somehow, I don't think Google will, and not just because Windows Mobile is closed source. I think public opinion/brand reputation is an important thing to consider in these types of situations. For example, this poll shows only 32% of people agree with the strate…

What about Apple? They have used saimilar tactic. How about Oracle? IBM? Cisco? Lost respect for those too? Pretty much every company follows similar tactic to protect its interest. The fact Google does not use it is not because they "do no evil" but that they don't have any patents to ask money for.

This is in fact one of the reasons for my higher opinion of Google over Apple.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#72

Post by wnight »

fortes wrote: post #58
hvs wrote: post #52

I was talking to someone who once worked at IBM, and he mentioned that they give a bonus (something like $2000-$5000) for each patent that you receive. He said that employees would get together in small groups and take turns filing patents and sharing the proceeds with the group. IBM, of course, paid for all the fees for filing the patent. Just thought I'd share this random anecdote..

MSFT does something similar as well. Was $500-$1500 while I was there (2002-6)

No percentage? That's the crime.

We talk about the RIAA abusing artists but as MS is showing these patents are worth billions to them. Engineers need to start demanding their worth, at least. If we're going to be DDoSed by patents we might as well enrich someone other than lawyers.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#73

Post by r00fus »

kelnos wrote: post #42
riffraff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

notice: everyone is dirty at this game, e.g. google's recent patent application for google doodle "A system provides a periodically changing story line and/or a special event company logo to entice users to access a web page."[1] [1] http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sec...

Sure, but they have to do this. I only consider it evil once a company starts suing other companies that they know can't compete based on patent portfolio size.

This is a static view of a dynamic situation that can often result in a feedback loop.

Have patents but losing your monthly revenue? Why not sue others to keep your stock price afloat (instead of innovating your business or products)

The mere act of having such legal armaments creates a moral hazard.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#74

Post by sdasdasd »

wnight wrote: post #72
fortes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MSFT does something similar as well. Was $500-$1500 while I was there (2002-6)

No percentage? That's the crime. We talk about the RIAA abusing artists but as MS is showing these patents are worth billions to them. Engineers need to start demanding their worth, at least. If we're going to be DDoSed by patents we might as well enrich someone other than lawyers.

Cornell U. pays you 1/3 of the royalty, your department gets 1/3 and rest 1/3 goes to university. No upfront costs to file a patent. I assume other universities also have similar arrangements.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#75

Post by yuhong »

rapind wrote: post #30
mwsherman wrote: post #29

To be clear, the problem is incentives, i.e., the patent system. It makes this behavior legal and profitable. Expecting Microsoft (or Apple or IBM) to leave money on the table is silly.

Exactly. If they weren't cashing in on this problem their shareholder's would be pretty pissed and heads would roll.

Really? I have never heard of shareholders asking for it.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#76

Post by city41 »

fortes wrote: post #58
hvs wrote: post #52

I was talking to someone who once worked at IBM, and he mentioned that they give a bonus (something like $2000-$5000) for each patent that you receive. He said that employees would get together in small groups and take turns filing patents and sharing the proceeds with the group. IBM, of course, paid for all the fees for filing the patent. Just thought I'd share this random anecdote..

MSFT does something similar as well. Was $500-$1500 while I was there (2002-6)

And the employee gets a nice trophy to display.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#77

Post by zmmmmm »

barista wrote: post #50
crizCraig wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Google do the same thing to Microsoft? Google has shareholders. If they did, I would lose respect for Google that I have already lost for Miscrosoft. Somehow, I don't think Google will, and not just because Windows Mobile is closed source. I think public opinion/brand reputation is an important thing to consider in these types of situations. For example, this poll shows only 32% of people agree with the strate…

What about Apple? They have used saimilar tactic. How about Oracle? IBM? Cisco? Lost respect for those too? Pretty much every company follows similar tactic to protect its interest. The fact Google does not use it is not because they "do no evil" but that they don't have any patents to ask money for.

> The fact Google does not use it is not because they "do no evil" but that they don't have any patents to ask money for.

At this point though, with thousands of phd level engineers and probably tens of thousands of the smartest people on the planet working for them, you have to conclude that the reason they have no patents is not that they are unable to produce patents, but rather a conscious choice that they don't want to.

The Nortel auction was fascinating. After leading the bidding Google just left the table and let its competitors buy up all the patents - patents that may very well injure Google in the future. I find it really weird that they opted out of at least buying some "protection" - in the end I can only put it down to a matter of principle - which is something I do respect them for.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#78

Post by wnight »

windsurfer wrote: post #67
hvs wrote: post #52

I was talking to someone who once worked at IBM, and he mentioned that they give a bonus (something like $2000-$5000) for each patent that you receive. He said that employees would get together in small groups and take turns filing patents and sharing the proceeds with the group. IBM, of course, paid for all the fees for filing the patent. Just thought I'd share this random anecdote..

Adobe has the same thing for 1000 to 5000 per patent (though not available to students such as myself). Some people would file 2 or 3 patents a year, usually just pertaining to the particular way they solved a problem that month.

> not available to students

Wow. I wonder if they understand the impact of that business decision?

Were you unpaid? Or something, that changed your legal status in a relevant way?

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#79

Post by zmmmmm »

SwellJoe wrote: post #21
TomOfTTB wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things Microsoft has done well is to pick the right pricing plan and the right industry. By making it a per unit fee on Smartphones you make it easy for manufacturers to pass the cost on to the consumer who then subsidizes it through a contract with their provider. The $5 per unit HTC pays Microsoft is only $.20 a month when passed directly on to the consumer and spread out over 2 years.

This, of course, has the side effect (or possibly even intended effect) of making Windows Phone seem more cost-effective. "Free" software isn't free, if it includes a Microsoft tax, anyway. I just hope the large Android ecosystem starts pushing for patent reform, and soon. This is just fundamentally broken market behavior...Microsoft is getting protection money. They don't even have to provide products people want, a…

> "Free" software isn't free, if it includes a Microsoft tax, anyway.

You have to wonder how galling it is for Microsoft that even after they impose this "tax" manufacturers still prefer to make Android devices and still sell vastly more of them than WP7. Effectively it values WP7 at less than free which must be rather insulting.

Edit: I think the fact MS is even trying this speaks volumes about how Microsoft misunderstands the market. Stuck in a 1990s mindset their assumption is that their problem competing with Android is that it is free while their OS costs money. They simply do not understand the difference between free and open source and assume the only difference between the two is a financial one. They fail to see the strategic value of Android being "open" to these manufacturers and don't get that it is far greater than anything they can ever impose on them via patent trolling.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#80

Post by zmmmmm »

The shadiest thing about this is that MS is not revealing the list of patents that it claims infringe and is forcing its licensees to also not reveal that. This says to me pretty clearly that were it known, a lot of these patents would probably be challenged and thrown out pretty quickly and MS would get a lot of negative publicity for exploiting them this way. I also strongly suspect that a lot of these initial licensees are getting promised some kind of kickback so that it works out cost-neutral for them to sign - MS has just been building precedents so far. What they do next will be interesting.
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