Zero to Production in Rust • Hacker News Board

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#91

Post by steveklabnik » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #74

steveklabnik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way of looking at Rust is that it is kinda at the intersection of three different language families: {Ruby,Python,JavaScript} x {C,C++} x {OCaml, Haskell, Scala} “Needs” is a bit strong but “may find some things familiar and therefore easier” is a common refrain.

That makes more sense. I'd probably phrase it as: "if you are familiar with a lower-level language and a functional language, you'll likely have an easier time learning Rust".

Yup, I’d agree with that.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#92

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

I’d encourage anyone considering Rust development to simply dive in and use freely available resources online.

When I was first trialing Rust I didn’t feel like I was missing anything by using free resources. The Rust ecosystem is moving fast enough that a book might only be relevant for a short while anyway. You’d end up having to read the latest documentation to use updated packages anyway.

This may not be a bad way to spend a book stipend if you have to buy something, but don’t internet the existence of this book as an indication that it’s necessary to penetrate the world of Rust backend services.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#93

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #80

cjg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Rust for backend web development and other things. For us, the safety is the critical reason to choose Rust - particularly the thread-safety. Also the relatively small memory footprint compared to something like Java. Performance hasn't driven our decision at all - the number of requests per second is very low. It's correctness that matters. We are a bit unusual because customers have locally deployed se…

>> backend web development >> thread-safety In 2021 what web development stack is making you write threaded code? >> correctness that matters The compilers guarantee end at the edge of your processes address space. You still have the same big problems as everyone else: 1. Are you building the right thing? 2. Does everyone understand the domain adequately to do their job? 3. … 101. Do i have a race condition Except yo…

> In 2021 what web development stack is making you write threaded code?

Go uses "green" (user-level) threads.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#94

Post by steveklabnik » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #75

I don’t want to shit on anyone’s hard work because this does look cool and useful if the language was Python, Java, Go, C#, … Using a systems language where it’s not required is just burning time and money.

As I said above, it may actually be the opposite. Depends on many factors, but the larger you scale, the less true what you’ve said is.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#95

Post by lstamour » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #86

Ad for a £35 book. "Zero To Production will focus on the challenges of writing Cloud-native applications in a team of four or five engineers with different levels of experience and proficiency." It's useful for that. It's not about how to program in Rust. It's about how to set up a production web application in Rust. This is more of a tooling problem.

If you visit https://www.lpalmieri.com/ you can read the chapters before buying and supporting the author.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#96

Post by layoutIfNeeded » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

deeviant wrote: post #68

cjg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Rust for backend web development and other things. For us, the safety is the critical reason to choose Rust - particularly the thread-safety. Also the relatively small memory footprint compared to something like Java. Performance hasn't driven our decision at all - the number of requests per second is very low. It's correctness that matters. We are a bit unusual because customers have locally deployed se…

> The biggest barrier to adoption, in my opinion, is that people are scared of learning Rust because it has a reputation as being difficult. I would say the biggest barrier is developers not wanting to jump on yet another "this language will solve all your problems, trust me" train. My experience in my 15 years in software, is that good developers solve problems, not languages or tools.

>I would say the biggest barrier is developers not wanting to jump on yet another "this language will solve all your problems, trust me" train.

Never underestimate what a team of overly enthusiastic junior engineers are capable of :-)

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#97

Post by cjg » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #80

cjg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Rust for backend web development and other things. For us, the safety is the critical reason to choose Rust - particularly the thread-safety. Also the relatively small memory footprint compared to something like Java. Performance hasn't driven our decision at all - the number of requests per second is very low. It's correctness that matters. We are a bit unusual because customers have locally deployed se…

>> backend web development >> thread-safety In 2021 what web development stack is making you write threaded code? >> correctness that matters The compilers guarantee end at the edge of your processes address space. You still have the same big problems as everyone else: 1. Are you building the right thing? 2. Does everyone understand the domain adequately to do their job? 3. … 101. Do i have a race condition Except yo…

>> you’re slower than a dev team working in a traditional language (java, go, python, …)

If anything my experience is that it's quite productive to work in Rust. For example, compared to Python (which you mention) we catch bugs earlier (with the compiler) rather than later (system test) and so development is faster. Shift left.

It's particularly important for races because they are some of the most difficult bugs to find and fix.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#98

Post by Ar-Curunir » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

deeviant wrote: post #68

cjg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Rust for backend web development and other things. For us, the safety is the critical reason to choose Rust - particularly the thread-safety. Also the relatively small memory footprint compared to something like Java. Performance hasn't driven our decision at all - the number of requests per second is very low. It's correctness that matters. We are a bit unusual because customers have locally deployed se…

> The biggest barrier to adoption, in my opinion, is that people are scared of learning Rust because it has a reputation as being difficult. I would say the biggest barrier is developers not wanting to jump on yet another "this language will solve all your problems, trust me" train. My experience in my 15 years in software, is that good developers solve problems, not languages or tools.

Right, it’s not like Rust has already influenced improvements in other languages and package managers. Definitely a fad

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#99

Post by lstamour » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

wokwokwok wrote: post #4

Is it cool now to just link to landing pages where you sell things now? Am I missing something? Why the hell are people upvoting a “buy now with discount code” page?

If you visit https://www.lpalmieri.com/ you can read the chapters before buying and supporting the author.

Re: Zero to Production in Rust

#100

Post by lillecarl » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

deeviant wrote: post #68

cjg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Rust for backend web development and other things. For us, the safety is the critical reason to choose Rust - particularly the thread-safety. Also the relatively small memory footprint compared to something like Java. Performance hasn't driven our decision at all - the number of requests per second is very low. It's correctness that matters. We are a bit unusual because customers have locally deployed se…

> The biggest barrier to adoption, in my opinion, is that people are scared of learning Rust because it has a reputation as being difficult. I would say the biggest barrier is developers not wanting to jump on yet another "this language will solve all your problems, trust me" train. My experience in my 15 years in software, is that good developers solve problems, not languages or tools.

Languages and tools have helped people write better software over the years, no?