3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California • Hacker News Board

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#111

Post by ptr2voidStar » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #30

diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

The problem is I don't know your dogs are well controlled. I've been bitten twice over the last year by leashless dogs. This could of course be solved by introducing stiff penalties for owners of unleashed dogs who bite -- how about a fixed 10,000 dollar fine?

>introducing stiff penalties for owners of unleashed dogs who bite -- how about a fixed 10,000 dollar fine?

If such a law were ever to be passed, something tells me a lot of people with "well behaved" dogs would suddenly start to leash their dogs "just in case".

Humans are very predictable in that fashion.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#112

Post by ncallaway » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #98

fbelzile wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist, I've had a fair share of "well trained" dogs chase me and nip at my ankles. It's scary and usually only ends after I stop, get off my bike and walk back towards the owner so they can regain control. > Taking them off leash, when others have a fair expectation that they will be leashed is rude and inconsiderate. This sums it up perfectly. Thank you!

> I've had a fair share of "well trained" dogs chase me and nip at my ankles Not sure why you say "well trained", the owners have obviously not trained the dog and has no business being off the leash, they are not well trained by any definition and you won't see dogs like that without a leash here in Barcelona. > > Taking them off leash, when others have a fair expectation that they will be leashed is rude and incons…

> If there is no expectation of having your dog on the leash, then it's not rude and inconsiderate?

Yea, I would agree with that. If there’s a legal expectation, or shared social expectation that an area requires a leash, then it’s rude and inconsiderate to have a dog off leash in that area.

If no such expectation exists, then off leash dogs are much more acceptable.

> the expectation here where I live seems to be very different than where you folks live.

There’s not a single expectation where I live, it varies by the place that you are. In certain areas of the city, dogs are required to be on a leash, while in the rest of they city they are not required.

In most parks in the city, dogs are required to be on a leash, but there are certain parks where dogs are allowed off leash.

My expectations of people’s behavior are largely driven by those laws, as that seems like the best way that we have to create shared expectations about different spaces.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#113

Post by throwaway803453 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

banana_maker wrote: post #94

throwaway803453 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in their 20's you are also likely lamenting the lack of affordable housing. One way to address it is to build more housing which which disrupts wildlife. Without affordable housing you might delay having children and getting married like I did. Wait too long and you might never be able to see your children or grandchildren because you won't have them. Reframing it that way might reduce resentment and ameli…

Thanks to inflation and skyrocketing tuition, etc, things are different for this generation. This isn't perpetually blaming each past generation; it's specifically blaming the boomer generation. Our "poisons" are home ownership being out of reach for a significant chunk of the population (therefore tossing money away instead of building wealth like previous generations), and our environment being destroyed with the h…

Agreed. No one's arguing you didn't get a shit deal. At least I hope no one is arguing that.

But that doesn't mean the previous generation got a better deal. When my Dad bought our first home the interest rate was over 10%. And how did he pay for college ? He had to fight in a war and then work at the military morgue. He never recovered from this.

I am not trying to win an argument here. It's human nature to focus one's own problems and assume others have it better. For the record, my dad would definitely preferred to have been born into your generation, as I would. Again that's not a counterargument but should at least help lessen some of the bitterness from these discussions.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#114

Post by brandonmenc » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

fnord77 wrote: post #23

mensetmanusman wrote: post #6

“ That’s contributed not only to increased drone activity, but also to more dogs and bicycles on the trails – all of which are prohibited. “We’ve seen a significant increase in dogs, particularly off-leash,” Loebl said. “That’s devastating for wildlife and this is prime nesting season. The dogs chase the birds and the birds abandon their nests.” Another problem is the development of multimillion-dollar homes on the h…

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

> they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

Or, they're the type who thinks everyone loves dogs and that you know their dog is just the sweetest thing ever.

I live in Austin (which is ground zero for irresponsible dog owners) and I can't count the number of times some huge unleashed dog runs up on me out of nowhere, followed by their owner shouting "oh, he's really friendly!"

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#115

Post by diggan » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

abandonliberty wrote: post #78

diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Why do you have to follow [law] if you don't cause a problem for others? Would you make the same reasonable question for driving double the speed limit, not wearing a seatbelt, or carrying a gun in public? "How is it inconsiderate if I carry a gun in public? I've never shot or threatened anyone! If I met someone who asked me to put my gun away, I would obviously do so." :) Societies work because we agree to give up a…

Generally law officers here apply laws against civilians based on preventing harm to others. If you have a wine bottle in the park and a officer walks by, they most likely wouldn't do anything. If you're loud and obnoxious, they would do something as you're disturbing others.

Seemingly the police here are of the view that most dogs don't pose a threat to others and are not annoying when off leash, as I haven't been confronted when walking next to them with my leashed dog.

Carrying a gun would obviously not be OK here as it's strictly outlawed. If I went to the US, I would probably feel the same way that some feel against dogs here but regarding guns, so that's actually a good point, thank you.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#116

Post by ptr2voidStar » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

nanis wrote: post #41

diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

> They follow my command That's great, as it should be. However, the majority of dog owners I encounter are at the mercy of their dogs, they treat the dogs not as dogs but as humans and try to bargain with them. This is merely annoying when the dogs is a golden lab, but can be mortal when it is a "sweet" "rescue" pit. You are right though, it doesn't matter if the dog is on a leash because people also get these 30ft…

>the majority of dog owners I encounter are at the mercy of their dogs, they treat the dogs not as dogs but as humans and try to bargain with them.

The crux of the problem.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#117

Post by diggan » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

giobox wrote: post #58

dnh44 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking dogs off lead is totally normal in the UK as well.

Dog attacks are common enough in the U.K. to be a topic you can subscribe to on the BBC news site. While it’s definitely pretty culturally acceptable to have a dog off leash there, I’m not so sure it should be, especially in places such as children’s parks or near livestock etc. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c9q9301541xt/dog-attacks

Strangely enough, most of those stories are about dogs attacking their own owners/families and seems to indicate the dogs were leashed in most stories.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#118

Post by Scarblac » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

smcl wrote: post #48

blamazon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it inconsiderate if the dogs themselves are behaving? This is the problem right here. We have no idea whether your dogs are properly trained or not. There is no certification or regulation for having a dog off leash. We have no idea if they’re going to suddenly snap and, in the worst case scenario, viciously attack a baby, something they are biologically quite capable of. It is probably different in collecti…

Can I ask where you're from? This might be a cultural difference. I mentioned originally in another comment (then removed it as it looked a bit hostile) that this might be something more US-centric as it hasn't been a problem anywhere I've seen in Europe. I don't mean to bash the USA here, but I think there might be more "this is a free country and I can do what I want..." types over there who (if they have a dog) ar…

In the Netherlands people who let their dogs free without a leash is a huge problem in many areas. Despite huge warning signs, people let them off the leash and they kill roe deer cubs and other wildlife.

And they all say their dog is well behaved and doesn't do such things.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#119

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

throwaway803453 wrote: post #81

ecf wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in their 20s I’ve already come to terms with just how much wildlife I’ll never be able to see because previous generations decided to absolutely destroy the planet.

As someone in their 20's you are also likely lamenting the lack of affordable housing. One way to address it is to build more housing which which disrupts wildlife. Without affordable housing you might delay having children and getting married like I did. Wait too long and you might never be able to see your children or grandchildren because you won't have them. Reframing it that way might reduce resentment and ameli…

It’s not the affordable housing advocates that are putting up houses at the edge of the wilderness that is disproportionately affecting wildlife. That’s the upper middle and the upper class that’s doing that.

Generally speaking, affordable housing advocates incidentally advocate for more efficient land use, because that’s one part of the strategy to build cheap places for people to live.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#120

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

rangersanger wrote: post #85

throwaway803453 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in their 20's you are also likely lamenting the lack of affordable housing. One way to address it is to build more housing which which disrupts wildlife. Without affordable housing you might delay having children and getting married like I did. Wait too long and you might never be able to see your children or grandchildren because you won't have them. Reframing it that way might reduce resentment and ameli…

Are you saying that the act of building affordable housing impacts wildlife/that affordable housing is built in locations disruptive to wildlife?

Funny how this is always the argument against affordable housing, and never the large detached single family dwellings in the far exurbs. Makes you wonder if the concerns are sincere…