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3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

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Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#51

Post by glennpratt »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Anecdata:

~ I've been bitten in the hand drawing blood by two different dogs (not mine). ~ My daughter had a large dog nipping her face while the owner laughed. ~ I have too different acquaintances that were mauled on their face pretty badly.

All these dogs had owners nearby.

I love dogs and have had one or more the majority of my life, but people are irresponsible and arrogant.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#52

Post by asimpletune »

smcl wrote: post #38
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Strange you're getting so downvoted. While I am a dog owner (and therefore may have a bias) I don't think you've said anything wrong or even controversial. I've seen a lot of US-based people who cannot fathom the idea of a well-behaved dog being completely fine off-leash, so maybe this is why? I must say that in this sort of situation - an area near a nesting site - I absolutely agree a dog shouldn't be free to run a…

It is totally counter to HN ethos to downvote a opinion you don’t agree with, and I’m disappointed others don’t give pause and ask themselves why they’re doing it first.

All the responses in this thread have been cordial and relevant, so it is disappointing to see some of them met with this kind of silent disapproval, which is reserved for non-sequitors, those acting in bad faith, or impolite speech.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#53

Post by bradleyjg »

smcl wrote: post #38
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Strange you're getting so downvoted. While I am a dog owner (and therefore may have a bias) I don't think you've said anything wrong or even controversial. I've seen a lot of US-based people who cannot fathom the idea of a well-behaved dog being completely fine off-leash, so maybe this is why? I must say that in this sort of situation - an area near a nesting site - I absolutely agree a dog shouldn't be free to run a…

There are a lot of different dog cultures around the world and even within the US.

In cities that have a lot of people from all over the country and world you end up with a lot of culture clashes. People do things that in the context they grew up in are totally reasonable and normal, but from someone else’s perspective seems uncomfortable or even dangerous.

In theory municipal rules should harmonize, albeit with some people left unhappy, but it’s another American cultural quirk that some rules are widely ignored. But which ones is again a matter of geographic diversity.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#54

Post by diggan »

glennpratt wrote: post #51
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Anecdata: ~ I've been bitten in the hand drawing blood by two different dogs (not mine). ~ My daughter had a large dog nipping her face while the owner laughed. ~ I have too different acquaintances that were mauled on their face pretty badly. All these dogs had owners nearby. I love dogs and have had one or more the majority of my life, but people are irresponsible and arrogant.

That's really bad and obviously badly behaved dogs you have interacted with. I hope in all cases they got fined properly for the disturbance and ill caused, and hopefully improved over time, although unlikely...

> people are irresponsible and arrogant

Agree! And it does harm that people are behaving that way, but that doesn't give me reason to limit people who are not irresponsible and arrogant. Yes, some things are dangerous to consume for example, and irresponsible people can make it worse for everyone by consuming those things, but I don't think we should outlaw those things just because of that.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#55

Post by CameronNemo »

prawn wrote: post #15
Causality1 wrote: post #11

Interesting. I wonder why the drone caused such a disproportionate response. The article doesn't address it but I doubt that if, say, an eagle had landed or started killing birds they would have abandoned so many eggs.

I fly drones including with commercial filming permits at conservation parks/islands with large bird populations. Different types of birds react in various ways to a drone though I've never noticed similar birds to these act in an overly panicked way. Some types of birds will take flight and then resettle, some will circle closely and try to intimidate the drone (galahs), some charge or consider attacking it (osprey,…

Off leash dogs and bikes could not have reached the nesting site. It is an island with a fence between the trail and the waterways surrounding the island. I dunno maybe the barking could have caused a disturbance.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#56

Post by fbelzile »

ncallaway wrote: post #47
diggan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have no idea whether your dogs are properly trained or not I think the assumption is, at least from mine and others like me, is that if your dog is off-leash, you can handle your dog off-leash. The same if you bring friends to some social event, you wouldn't bring them if you can't handle them and they can behave in public. I'm not afraid they are gonna attack me, although sometimes humans do attack other humans…

> I think the assumption is, at least from mine and others like me, is that if your dog is off-leash, you can handle your dog off-leash. Which may apply to 90% of off leash dogs. Unfortunately, the other 10% that have dogs that *cannot* be off leash, but do so anyway ruin it for you. There are people that are afraid of dogs. They have no way of knowing, at a distance, whether your dogs will behave or run up to them.…

As a cyclist, I've had a fair share of "well trained" dogs chase me and nip at my ankles. It's scary and usually only ends after I stop, get off my bike and walk back towards the owner so they can regain control.

> Taking them off leash, when others have a fair expectation that they will be leashed is rude and inconsiderate.

This sums it up perfectly. Thank you!

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#57

Post by blamazon »

smcl wrote: post #48
blamazon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it inconsiderate if the dogs themselves are behaving? This is the problem right here. We have no idea whether your dogs are properly trained or not. There is no certification or regulation for having a dog off leash. We have no idea if they’re going to suddenly snap and, in the worst case scenario, viciously attack a baby, something they are biologically quite capable of. It is probably different in collecti…

Can I ask where you're from? This might be a cultural difference. I mentioned originally in another comment (then removed it as it looked a bit hostile) that this might be something more US-centric as it hasn't been a problem anywhere I've seen in Europe. I don't mean to bash the USA here, but I think there might be more "this is a free country and I can do what I want..." types over there who (if they have a dog) ar…

I think we’re already past cliches and stereotypes when talking of all dog owners who walk without a leash!

I’m from USA. On the same page with you here about the collectivist vs individual freedom. As you noted it’s a tragedy of the commons—-because unquestioned individual freedom is prized so heavily in USA, some dog owners take advantage of it without appropriate precaution, and those people tend to do things like call the police on black people, or scare and injure children by accident with their dogs, and these incidents correspondingly build our stereotype of off-leashers. Ironically this also leads to laws and rules and a general social attitude that restrict our individual freedom to walk dogs off leash.

In that way, Europeans are more ‘individually free’ on this topic because, as you note, off leash dog walking is totally normal over there because people wouldn’t think of doing it without appropriate control of their dog. Interesting to think about the tension and paradoxes between individual and collectivist freedoms.

But, you probably have some annoying dog tax ;)

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#58

Post by giobox »

dnh44 wrote: post #34
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Walking dogs off lead is totally normal in the UK as well.

Dog attacks are common enough in the U.K. to be a topic you can subscribe to on the BBC news site. While it’s definitely pretty culturally acceptable to have a dog off leash there, I’m not so sure it should be, especially in places such as children’s parks or near livestock etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c9q9301541xt/dog-attacks

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#59

Post by diggan »

stephenhuey wrote: post #39
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

You’re in the minority - too many dog owners think their dogs are fine and when their dog runs dozens of yards away from their master to bound up to us th egg cheerfully call out, “It’s a friendly dog!” Then they go on their merry way and I have to attend to my 2 crying toddlers. Maybe they only kicked my kids’ faces but sometimes they knock them down. I grew up with dogs in the 20th century - mine could obey and do…

> You’re in the minority

Yes, if I was in the USA maybe I would be in the minority. But where I actually live (Barcelona, Spain) I'm not, as mentioned before. Countless people walk their dogs without leashes here, and no one bats an eye.

> too many dog owners think their dogs are fine and when their dog runs dozens of yards away from their master to bound up to us th egg cheerfully call out, “It’s a friendly dog!”

Sure that might be a friendly dog but in no way is that a well-behaved dog, it wouldn't run away yards away unless the owner explicitly calls out for them to behave that way. Living in ~16th or something biggest city in Europe, you wouldn't have your dog stray that far away from you, easily within a yard of yourself at all time, otherwise I wouldn't call them well-behaved.

So back to the original point: off-leash dogs that don't behave properly have inconsiderate owners, yes I agree with this. Are all owners who let their dogs be off-leash inconsiderate? No.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#60

Post by cratermoon »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Every stereotype of the off-leash dog owner on display here.

Leash your dog. To do otherwise is selfish and rude.

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