Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#31

Post by recursive » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

There are plenty of games that have no intention of looking natural. I haven't played an FPS in ~20 years, but I distinctly recall bunny hopping being fun, all by itself.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#32

Post by IQunder130 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #16

IQunder130 wrote: post #15

The thing I don't understand is why you would limit velocity in such a strange way to begin with.

accelerations map directly to actions of the user (forces). It seems fairly natural, not strange, to control velocities and positions in terms of accelerations. The same thing happens in real life.

That's not the strange thing. The strange thing is limiting it on a projection rather than the magnitude of the velocity vector.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#33

Post by toast0 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

IQunder130 wrote: post #14

a-nikolaev wrote: post #2

The described way of increasing maximum velocity does not look realistic, it is not based in any kind of physics or bio-mechanics. So, is it a suggestion to implement a broken game mechanic.. so that experienced players can transfer their skill to other FPS games? Nice..

Getting to play again after being shot in the face is not realistic either, yet pretty much all FPS games implement this feature. I wonder why?

Ever play Rainbow 6 games? That's why most games don't have realistic damage.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#34

Post by voldacar » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

Something might start out as a glitch, but then be embraced by the playerbase and become a really interesting and beautiful mechanic.

Rocket jumping could be considered a glitch. It was never really designed, it was just an outcome of the physics system in quake. But it stuck, and later on it was added to TF2 (built on a distant descendant of the quake engine) as a central mechanic. Without it, you wouldn't have cool stuff like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUQJVhfEe_Y

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#35

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

[deleted]

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#36

Post by ezekg » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

Glitches can really broaden the skill-gap:

Halo CE: backpack reload, double melee, quick camo, etc.

Halo 2: BXR, BXB, RRX, etc.

Halo 5: slide jump, bum jump, boost jump, etc.

Warzone: slide cancel.

But then again, some glitches don’t. Like super-jumping in H2.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#37

Post by smoldesu » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

As someone who played a lot of quake in the day, I'll be the first to admit that bunny-hopping is an absurd-looking mechanic. However, a lot of people talk about movement mechanics in video games today, because movement should be one of the most dependable and flexible tools at your disposal in an FPS. Bunnyhopping added the extra nuance of being able to maintain speed, accelerate and strafe all at at the same time. If you mastered Quake's movement (namely bhopping and rocket jumping), you had an objective advantage over your opponent. Even if the other person had better aim, you still had the opportunity to out-maneuver them, which is something I seldom see inside modern video games.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#38

Post by smoldesu » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #23

alkonaut wrote: post #21

I have played FPS games for as long as they have existed, competitively in the early days of CS. I don’t see why adding this feature deliberately would be appealing. It makes the game look unnatural for what? There are tons of hard to use glitches in every FPS game and the policy on any enjoyable server is “no glitching”, that is - play the game as the developer intended or be kicked. This bug was just too widely use…

At least in Quake this was not deliberate choice. It was fortunate accident. It took some time for people to discover bunny hopping and once somebody figured it out it took like a storm. Hopping wasn't discovered immediately. I remember we were doing things like strafing into walls to speed up movement before we knew bunny hops are possible. I don't think idSoftware predicted how the game would be used when they were…

I also think most people discovered trimping before bunnyhopping, which is kinda surprising given how dependent it is on acceleration.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#39

Post by ezekg » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

b0rsuk wrote: post #29

I'm happy that bunnyhopping has died and doesn't show up in games anymore. You can bunnyhop in Dusk, but it's a single-player game and it's perfectly playable without it.

Bunny hopping is still alive and well in games like Titanfall and Apex, though the mechanics are a bit different. Those engines are built on the Source engine, so likely use a modified version of the OG movement code. Similar movement glitches are also alive in games like Warzone, with slide canceling.

Re: Bunnyhopping from the Programmer's Perspective (2015)

#40

Post by beebeepka » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

I've been playing Quake for so long, I literally always, and I mean always, circle and strafe jump. Can't imagine doing things any other way.

Of course, we kind of went beckwards for the last 15 years but skilled games are making a comeback. Speaking as a PC/arcades gamer,though.