Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal • Hacker News Board

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#191

Post by GhostVII » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

LightG wrote: post #184

GhostVII wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median disposable income (after healthcare, taxes, housing, etc.) in the US is the highest in the world aside from Norway I believe.

Curious, does the "after healthcare" allow for future, average healthcare claims? I imagine it's easy to have high disposable income today, if not allowing for the cancer treatment you may pay for tomorrow. As said, this is a question. I understand only some people in the USA have full health insurance.

Actually it looks like the calculation goes the opposite direction, basically disposable income is calculated by adding your income in dollars to other benefits you get (healthcare, food stamps, etc.), and subtracting taxes. So that is kind of accounted for, since in countries other than the US their healthcare benefits year-over-year will be added to their measured income.

For the average person though there isn't much risk of having to pay tens of thousands of dollars for cancer treatment. The vast majority of Americans have health insurance, and your costs are limited by the out of pocket maximum.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#192

Post by lifeformed » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #185

lifeformed wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for a properly demoralising angle, that level of wealth is still a far cry from being fully financially independent. Really? I feel like if you had 900k in cash, and no debts, you could easily live freely. Maybe not the ultimate lifestyle, but pretty comfortably, even in the US. That's around 50k a year in investments. Even with a partner and maybe even a kid or two, you could get by and have the time to build…

> feel like if you had 900k in cash, and no debts, you could easily live freely. Maybe not the ultimate lifestyle, but pretty comfortably, even in the US. That's around 50k a year in investments. It's still cutting it very close. 900k in cash will go by faster than expected due to inflation. A single person in a rural or low COL area for under $2k/month between rent/food/utilities. This isn't really leaving much room…

Oh true, I forgot to account inflation, and also healthcare. While I don't think you could retire at 30 with it, 900k would give you a comfy runway to build your own income sources (like an online business or something), while living freely for many years. I guess that's what I meant by financial freedom, not necessarily not having any other income forever. And building online income streams isn't for everyone of course, but it's probably a desire of many here.

On the other hand, 900k will let you comfortably retire and live like a king if you move to a lower cost of living country.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#193

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #190

hutzlibu wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Also over half? of people wake up to pee at least once. That'd be nice to make unnecessary" And then there is the hazzle of breathing. And walking. And moving around! Oh boy, if only someone could do living for me.

You've got some weird comparisons here. Aside from not seeming relevant, of the three two are ones we definitely pay other people to do sometimes (ever got on a bus?). The last, breathing - you mean I could pay someone to breathe instead of me doing it? And go diving with no tank? Sounds incredible.

The main point is, that when you view everything monetary, you might miss out a bit of life in general.

The guys in the article had fun, doing what they did.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#194

Post by relaxing » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #191

LightG wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, does the "after healthcare" allow for future, average healthcare claims? I imagine it's easy to have high disposable income today, if not allowing for the cancer treatment you may pay for tomorrow. As said, this is a question. I understand only some people in the USA have full health insurance.

Actually it looks like the calculation goes the opposite direction, basically disposable income is calculated by adding your income in dollars to other benefits you get (healthcare, food stamps, etc.), and subtracting taxes. So that is kind of accounted for, since in countries other than the US their healthcare benefits year-over-year will be added to their measured income. For the average person though there isn't m…

> your costs are limited by the out of pocket maximum.

“Limited”, ha, ha, ha, to $8k for an individual/$16k for a family. (Very generous of them to assume a family has two wage earners making equally as much.)

Better hope your cancer treatment doesn’t span two calendar years.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#195

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

lifeformed wrote: post #192

mgkimsal wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> feel like if you had 900k in cash, and no debts, you could easily live freely. Maybe not the ultimate lifestyle, but pretty comfortably, even in the US. That's around 50k a year in investments. It's still cutting it very close. 900k in cash will go by faster than expected due to inflation. A single person in a rural or low COL area for under $2k/month between rent/food/utilities. This isn't really leaving much room…

Oh true, I forgot to account inflation, and also healthcare. While I don't think you could retire at 30 with it, 900k would give you a comfy runway to build your own income sources (like an online business or something), while living freely for many years. I guess that's what I meant by financial freedom, not necessarily not having any other income forever. And building online income streams isn't for everyone of cou…

> will let you comfortably retire and live like a king if you move to a lower cost of living country.

agreed, except... you can basically never come back.

> I guess that's what I meant by financial freedom, not necessarily not having any other income forever

Yeah, the phrase can mean different things to different people.

It's definitely a 'comfy runway' for a lot of folks in a lot of places, even if it's not a "never have to work again" number.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#196

Post by bloggie » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

lifeformed wrote: post #182

bostik wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the comments, or at least by those who comment (semi-)actively, a surprisingly sizeable fraction of HN actives do fit into that bucket. And for a properly demoralising angle, that level of wealth is still a far cry from being fully financially independent.

> And for a properly demoralising angle, that level of wealth is still a far cry from being fully financially independent. Really? I feel like if you had 900k in cash, and no debts, you could easily live freely. Maybe not the ultimate lifestyle, but pretty comfortably, even in the US. That's around 50k a year in investments. Even with a partner and maybe even a kid or two, you could get by and have the time to build…

If you're interested, you can look into "Financial Independence / Retire Early" discussion forums and read about people's plans for retiring and living off their investments. Most that I've seen that retire in USA are aiming for much more than $1m and still live rather frugally, though it depends on their plan, how much longer they plan on living, if they are planning on giving anything away as inheritance, and where they plan on living.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#197

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #193

IanCal wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got some weird comparisons here. Aside from not seeming relevant, of the three two are ones we definitely pay other people to do sometimes (ever got on a bus?). The last, breathing - you mean I could pay someone to breathe instead of me doing it? And go diving with no tank? Sounds incredible.

The main point is, that when you view everything monetary, you might miss out a bit of life in general. The guys in the article had fun, doing what they did.

The goal of the monetary view is still to increase your enjoyment. If you have fun doing something, it won't tell you to stop. It only steps in to say "If this is an unfun obligation, maybe you should treat it like a job."

You're not going to miss out on much of life that way.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#198

Post by arbitrary_name » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

thih9 wrote: post #66

supernova87a wrote: post #37

I just find the German text message entertaining. The words and syntax are great. "Mir ist grad mein handy in den Landwahrkanal geplumpst" Geplumpst! Sounds exactly the right word for what just happened. "Jetzt könnte ich ein Bier gebrauchen" Couldn't we all.

Could someone translate?

I would say the best translation to English is 'plopped' - it's a sort of whimsical or even comical way of saying it fell in.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#199

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #197

hutzlibu wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main point is, that when you view everything monetary, you might miss out a bit of life in general. The guys in the article had fun, doing what they did.

The goal of the monetary view is still to increase your enjoyment. If you have fun doing something, it won't tell you to stop. It only steps in to say "If this is an unfun obligation, maybe you should treat it like a job." You're not going to miss out on much of life that way.

Yes, and the guys in the article had fun, recovered their expensive phone - and got some fame - I originally replied to the comment who stated the whole thing would be nothing for him, simply because of the amount of time invested vs. his hourly wage. That sounds like a more money centered philosophy to me, but each to his own.

Re: Using a magnetic string to fish for a lost iPhone 12 in a Berlin canal

#200

Post by bostik » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #185

lifeformed wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for a properly demoralising angle, that level of wealth is still a far cry from being fully financially independent. Really? I feel like if you had 900k in cash, and no debts, you could easily live freely. Maybe not the ultimate lifestyle, but pretty comfortably, even in the US. That's around 50k a year in investments. Even with a partner and maybe even a kid or two, you could get by and have the time to build…

> feel like if you had 900k in cash, and no debts, you could easily live freely. Maybe not the ultimate lifestyle, but pretty comfortably, even in the US. That's around 50k a year in investments. It's still cutting it very close. 900k in cash will go by faster than expected due to inflation. A single person in a rural or low COL area for under $2k/month between rent/food/utilities. This isn't really leaving much room…

Since my comment triggered a real discussion, I wanted to share some of my thoughts on the subject. For what it's worth, my own views are probably on the fringe side.

To start with, when I say "financially fully independent", I'm not talking about a fixed amount. Instead I'm eyeing a figure that allows you to live comfortably (but not lavishly) with a family, in the place of your choosing, and not have to ever touch the principal. Even in the face of a devastating decade-long recession.

Let's work backwards from that. In case of a massive global downturn, looking down the barrel of a universal lost decade, it is still possible to invest your money so that you can get a reliable 1.8% above inflation from dividends alone. That's pre-tax. Assume capital gains are taxed at 35%, and we're talking about ~1.2% annual real return on investment.

If you expect your family's annual, comfortable living expenses (with assorted housing maintenance costs factored in) to be about 110k net, then you'll need 110/0.012 = 9.16M to invest. Let's round that up to 9.2M.

In case you want to retire to a relatively lavish lifestyle, so you can get a large estate and enough liquid cash to pay for helping staff even under the most drastic but still realistic scenarios, we're talking about post-tax net income of >200k a year, and a principal of at least 17M.

Feel free to plug your own numbers in.