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No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#121

Post by bostonsre »

gfodor wrote: post #32

They exist. They are real. They aren't ours. They aren't an adversary's, because a) the military would never admit it if that were possible and b) if it were the case the adversary would have already taken over the world. There's no evidence they were made by aliens, leprechauns, or ghosts. But there's evidence they were made. Not that they are swamp gas or funny clouds. So lets get past that, and realize there's som…

A terrestrial adversary could be prepping the battlefield. They supposedly submerge under water, so maybe they are just carry supplies close to our coasts or they are building something. They could also just be prepping a contingency plan that they don't plan to enact unless a war starts between the US and them.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#122

Post by Magonia »

md_ wrote: post #87
swader999 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those descriptions are a tectonic shift on the topic from the US government." Feels like we are being primed for something new to be afraid of and give our treasure to in defense of. Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. I hope the script doesn't go that way.

> Feels like we are being primed for something new to be afraid of and give our treasure to in defense of. Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. Heh. Are you really suggesting that after decades of disinterest, the US government is releasing this in order to...make people afraid of aliens? In order to increase taxse? Or do I misunderstand what you mean?

That is not what he is suggesting, as far as my understanding goes. Rather, that this is yet another iteration of "we have always been at war with Eurasia". And, do not conflate your perception of disinterest from the government with whatever classified research took place during this time, especially post WW2.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#123

Post by Matticus_Rex »

md_ wrote: post #87
swader999 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those descriptions are a tectonic shift on the topic from the US government." Feels like we are being primed for something new to be afraid of and give our treasure to in defense of. Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. I hope the script doesn't go that way.

> Feels like we are being primed for something new to be afraid of and give our treasure to in defense of. Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. Heh. Are you really suggesting that after decades of disinterest, the US government is releasing this in order to...make people afraid of aliens? In order to increase taxse? Or do I misunderstand what you mean?

There's a whole culture in the defense industry and associated bureaucracies that pushes the idea of scaring the public. They justify it with a firm internal narrative that there are huge threats out there that only the defense industry/officials really understand, and anything they can do to increase readiness is therefore justified. It just so happens that these interests align with the monetary interests in that industry, and there's a big revolving door between industry/lobbyists/officials.

I had a Political Science professor in college who came from that school of IR thought who evangelized it, and then a couple of others who explicitly called it out and attacked it, which was shocking to me as a student. It feels like par for the course as a more jaded adult.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#124

Post by octopoc »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #46
king_magic wrote: post #14

The NY Times Headline is much more informative and interesting: > U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either Sub header: > A new report concedes that much about the observed phenomena remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, as well as ability to change direction and submerge. Those descriptions are a tectonic shift on the topic from the US governmen…

> a tectonic shift on the topic from the US government I haven't been following this closely. Why?

The US government was always pretty tight-lipped about UFOs until recently. FTA:

> In an unprecedented move, the US government is preparing to issue an unclassified report detailing what it knows about a series mysterious encounters with unidentified flying objects.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#125

Post by yumraj »

generalizations wrote: post #118
swader999 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those descriptions are a tectonic shift on the topic from the US government." Feels like we are being primed for something new to be afraid of and give our treasure to in defense of. Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. I hope the script doesn't go that way.

> Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. I've seen this sentiment expressed before, but it's never seemed persuasive. Seems to me that the only inherently peaceful alien race would be the one that never had the evolutionary pressure to compete for resources - and that seems like an impossible occurrence.

> Seems to me that the only inherently peaceful alien race would be the one that never had the evolutionary pressure to compete for resources - and that seems like an impossible occurrence.

Not only that, but the moment that peaceful species encounters a non-peaceful species it would be wiped out, as evidenced by numerous extinct, or in the verge of being extinct, species on planet Earth. So peaceful species are going to be short lived and may not last much, in Universe times, to have too much contact with other species.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#127

Post by md_ »

gfodor wrote: post #111
md_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My 2c is extra-terrestrial civ is less likely than co-terrestrial civ (subterrainean/ocean) - but lets stop talking about this like they are hallucinations or possible atmospheric phenomenon. Why? This whole thing reminds me a bit of the "Havana Syndrome", in that: - It's an extraordinary claim, presented with limited evidence. - It defies obvious logical explanation (i.e., a motive). - The phenomenon lacks a clear…

I agree with the concerns, however as someone who has been kept up a bit with the phenomenon, the main body of stuff to look at are the set of reports which involve: - Multiple expert witnesses, usually pilots or radar operators, getting visual and sensor confirmation from multiple vantage points - Air and ground tracking - High cohesion and consistency (in terms of object size, cardinality, dynamics, and timing) bet…

Don't get me wrong: I am baffled by some of the reports (especially, as you note, those that have multiple witnesses or multiple independent pieces of evidence).

But of course alien civilizations—or (non-human?) co-terrestrial civilizations—are such an extraordinary hypothesis that I do not see why they should be treated as more plausible than (as you note) something like shared delusions.

Let me expand upon that a bit. My (tongue in cheek) explanation is this:

Humans have an undiscovered facility for shared perceptual delusions and (seemingly deliberate) confabulation. That is to say, individuals with shared cultural contexts may respond to the same environmental triggers (weird reflections, social stressors, I don't know!) by hallucinating the same things. Moreover, upon experiencing such a hallucination, some subjects will confabulate corroboratory evidence, perhaps even (unconsciously) going so far as to tamper with radar recordings or (unconsciously) colluding with other "witnesses"—and individuals who engage in this confabulation have no memory or recollection of it later.

This is a totally wild explanation, and I don't actually believe it. But is it as plausible as alien civilizations? I sorta think so!

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#128

Post by tkojames »

andiareso wrote: post #100
swilliamsio wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't imagine those water aliens would be too pleased with all the plastic we've been dumping down there.

I would imagine if they live at the deepest depths of the ocean it wouldn't even phase them. I feel like the analogy of us and space is pretty accurate. Satellites and space trash don't bother us much as they are so far above.

Nah there is trash tons of trash at the bottom of the ocean. When James Cameron went to challenger deep they found plastic bags at the bottom.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#129

Post by correcthorse123 »

fighterpilot wrote: post #92
morpheos137 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Aliens being non-peaceful fails logic Um, why?

I agree with that and this is my thinking behind it. (1) The number of filters they've passed through without destroying themselves suggests that they've overcome tribalism. The late-stage species most prone to violence are also the ones most prone to self destruction before they developed the tech to traverse space and get to Earth. We don't have good predictions on the destructive potential of future tech, but supp…

While I think your points are certainly plausible, one way to overcome the filter could be removal of individuals or the concept of self which we experience. It's perhaps a bit of a lame TV trope, but something like a superintelligence could have a mind concept completely unimaginable to us.

It's all in the realm of speculation of course, with any proposal having quite a risk of anthropocentric (terracentric?) biases.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#130

Post by md_ »

generalizations wrote: post #112
md_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feels like we are being primed for something new to be afraid of and give our treasure to in defense of. Aliens being non-peaceful fails so many logic tests though. Heh. Are you really suggesting that after decades of disinterest, the US government is releasing this in order to...make people afraid of aliens? In order to increase taxse? Or do I misunderstand what you mean?

Pretty sure that's been an explicit motivation for past wars carried on by the US - an external enemy builds cohesion, prevents conflict at home. Not agreeing or disagreeing, just noting that it's not an outlandish theory.

I'm not disputing that intelligence agencies would lie to justify a foreign war. It's happened multiple times before.

I'm disputing that lying about aliens would be an effective or preferred strategy for doing so.

Like, a war against...whom? Is the voting public going to buy it? Cut me a break!

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