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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#771

Post by bitexploder »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #199
bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

"This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life." Dare we inquire how long you have lived. :) But seriously, I am not sure that the scientific community, nor all national governments, have reached a clear consensus on gain of function research. It is still a developing issue. Welcome to be corrected on that. Such research could potentially help to prevent pandemics as well as accidentally start them. T…

Even if it wasn’t created or modified in a lab, it’s not hard to imagine it was known and known to be dangerous. The conditions described about how these researchers were sifting through bat guano are quite poor to say the least. From the start of the pandemic I sort of shrugged about how it started. I thought denying a lab leak so early on was quite odd, or at least no one should trust that. For simple reasons: governments lie and do dangerous things, harming its citizens and other global citizens in the process. Then they classify it all and lie about it. There are so many examples of this, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. See: Rocky Mountain flats plutonium production, etc.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#772

Post by DemocracyFTW »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #581
frickenhamster wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China supported this in a psyop. Remember when they tried repeatedly to push the origin of the virus to Italy? I'm ethnically Chinese, so I'm in contact with a lot of mainlanders. The brainwashing is very effective. Even if most mainlanders know that their state media is bogus, and that Xi is a dictator, they'll take it deeply personally when you say anything that threatens the whole China # 1 narrative. All they had…

Or all the effort to not call it China Virus/Wuhan flu because that's racist and we don't name viruses after places anymore. Virus variants named after places on the other hand are apparently perfectly fine. So we don't have the Chinese virus but we do have British, Brazilian and Indian variants.

> we do have British, Brazilian and Indian variants

which will now be re-named by Greek letter names

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#773

Post by bitexploder »

tremon wrote: post #742
texasbigdata wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is naive, but what the issue here? These people are alive, the documents exist, the physical locations are accessible. This isn’t archeology. Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar? You shut down the globe for a year, seems like it’d be worth running down all the Rabit holes.

the physical locations are accessible China has blocked any and all independent access to the site, the only group allowed access was the WHO research group that somehow happened to include the most rabid opponents of the lab leak theory (Peter Daszak, mentioned in the article).

It’s all been thoroughly scrubbed physically and digitally anyway at this point.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#774

Post by infamouscow »

myfavoritedog wrote: post #732

I know that most people won't; but if this article is some kind of major a revelation to you, I hope that you take some time to re-evaluate your information sources. You really should think more carefully about how you detect bullshit. There were those who were sounding the alarm about this lab leak hypothesis well over a year ago. The overwhelming media narrative to look away from that hypothesis and smear those who…

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted for suggesting people should form their own conclusions rather than blindly following team red or blue.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#775

Post by pclmulqdq »

stef25 wrote: post #640
thu2111 wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I certainly don't see the conflict of interest - what was Fauci gaining? His continued role? Yes. Obviously you don't put an arsonist in charge of fighting fires, so if this information had come out early last year then he would have lost not only his role much sooner, but also his social status and career. If what's coming out now came out last year, Trump's replacement of him with Scott Atlas would have been mo…

This is a global pandemic that came out of China. In the worst possible case, Fauci hid the fact that an org he's involved in donated a minuscule portion of its budget to the lab from where the virus leaked due to incompetence. It's not like he took the vial home for lulz and dropped it on the subway. His role in the origin of this thing is so small it's irrelevant. The only thing that's up for discussion is that he…

Nailing public figures who lie for personal gain to the cross serves a very important function by dissuading other public figures from doing the same. Otherwise, the math suggests that every public figure should be lying for personal gain since they can just get away with it. At least in the US, there are far too many politicians who think they can get away with lying through their teeth to the public.

However, it looks like Fauci has outlived his usefulness to the ruling class, and they are currently in the process of throwing him under the bus.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#776

Post by Rapzid »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #257
tmp404 wrote: post #155

While this article is quite illuminating on the political side of the lab leak theory, on the evidence side it's mostly a rehash of some long-standing speculations. The only recent evidence it contains is the fact that 3 researchers from WIV sought hospital care back in autumn of 2019 with symptoms similar to COVID. However, this piece of evidence is hardly consequential without further details: - First, most common…

> First, most common symptoms of COVID are indistinguishable from common cold. I was under the impression that the symptoms were quite different to the common cold and more inline with influenza (fever, dry-cough, aches, no mucus production – symptoms that are rarely caused by the cold).

I believe you are correct based on my research and having had COVID.

Doesn't take really detract from the points though.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#777

Post by caseysoftware »

FTA:

"In one State Department meeting, officials seeking to demand transparency from the Chinese government say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome attention to U.S. government funding of it."

In an internal memo obtained by Vanity Fair, Thomas DiNanno, former acting assistant secretary of the State Department’s Bureau of Arms Control, Verification, and Compliance, wrote that staff from two bureaus, his own and the Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation, “warned” leaders within his bureau “not to pursue an investigation into the origin of COVID-19” because it would “‘open a can of worms’ if it continued.”

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (or "Who will guard the guards?")

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#778

Post by eutropia »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #759
ddxxdd wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are we to believe that, out of 200 million square miles on this planet, this novel bat-related coronavirus just naturally emerged within 8 miles of a facility that specializes in novel bat related coronaviruses? During a season when bats hibernate to areas thousands of miles away? If you look at the circumstances behind this pandemic's origins, and do some basic back-of-the-envelope math, the lab-leak hypothesis i…

> So are we to believe that, out of 200 million square miles on this planet, this novel bat-related coronavirus just naturally emerged within 8 miles of a facility that specializes in novel bat related coronaviruses? No, of course we are not "to believe" that. What we are to do is to consider it is a possibility. Or are we to believe that SARS-CoV-2 could only have emerged as a lab leak? Both the natural and the lab-…

We’ve been searching for intermediate animal species for 15 months and none have been found (SARS and MERS were found quickly), SARS-Cov-2 is actually quite bad at infecting bats, and the key thing: arginine-based (i.e DNA amino acid, not RNA) furin cleavage site on the spike protein (widely regarded in the GoF research as a great way to increase human infectivity).

To say nothing of the incredible coincidence of the WIV.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#779

Post by SiempreViernes »

whitepaint wrote: post #724
SiempreViernes wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, nobody ever claimed that the seafood marked was some sort of natural reservoir. It was just the earliest suspected point of where the animal to human transmission happened, the reservoir was always presumed to be somewhere else.

The point I was trying to make is that the idea of it naturally occurring was mainstream. If you tried to guess it might have come from the lab, it'd be just dismissed completely. However, both of these claims had no evidence, so why was just one claim labeled as a conspiracy theory and dismissed entirely by the mainstream media? Do you disagree? Do you think it might have been political?

You'll have to more clearly define what precise meaning you pack into "evidence" because I can't really understand your central claim otherwise.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#780

Post by shellfishgene »

eutropia wrote: post #768
bglazer wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite astounded and confused at the sudden shift in discourse towards assuming that the lab leak theory must be true. It's not so much the theory itself that's surprising. Lab leak remains plausible but less probable then natural origins. The sudden shift is just baffling to me though. This huge new furor is due to anonymous CIA sources saying three people got sick? That's extremely tenuous evidence, as you state…

Which other Coronaviruses have a furin cleavage site using arginine? Which other coronaviruses even have arginine in their proteome?

Why would coronaviruses not have arginine?
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