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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#441

Post by peter422 »

unishark wrote: post #339
peter422 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t dispute it is one point of suspicion, but Wuhan is also one of the 10 biggest cities in China. It isn’t a surprise the first US outbreak was in the biggest city. The first cases could have been anywhere. If there were more evidence that it was lab made then the location would be another point, not to me without further evidence it doesn’t mean all that much. And there have been 2 emerging coronavirus outbreak…

> I don’t dispute it is one point of suspicion, but Wuhan is also one of the 10 biggest cities in China. It isn’t a surprise the first US outbreak was in the biggest city. The first cases could have been anywhere. Is that really so for animal-borne viruses though? I thought they came from place with lots of animals, hence the focus on the market. If it just showed up on some random high-rise employee downtown that wo…

The first death in the U.S. was only discovered at least a month later, and this is long after we knew about the existence of the virus.

In China before there was a huge outbreak there is absolutely no way you can expect a small number of cases of a virus that nobody knows exists to be picked up. By the time of the big Wuhan outbreak there are already different variations in the virus. It had been in some population for a while before it broke out.

So the first outbreak in NYC is analogous to Wuhan. It could have started in Wuhan or it could have started anywhere else and then Wuhan had the right combination of factors for the outbreak to surge. We don’t know for sure.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#442

Post by seventytwo »

TheBigSalad wrote: post #377
bglazer wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite astounded and confused at the sudden shift in discourse towards assuming that the lab leak theory must be true. It's not so much the theory itself that's surprising. Lab leak remains plausible but less probable then natural origins. The sudden shift is just baffling to me though. This huge new furor is due to anonymous CIA sources saying three people got sick? That's extremely tenuous evidence, as you state…

What makes you think it's less probable than natural origins? The wet market has probably been there for 1,000 years and this hasn't happened. Compared to the virus appearing in one of 3 labs in the world that would be studying it.

Well, we know for a fact that a >96% similar virus was found to infect the miners naturally in 2006… how hard is it to imagine a few more tweaks since then?

We’ve already had many mutations of COVID occur in the past year. Is it crazy to think virus which infected the miners couldn’t have mutated into what we know as COVID?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#443

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Previous 31 posts were flagged within seconds. If by Dang, please explain shortly what is wrong. Too meta? Manipulation on HN not to be spoken out loud or speculated about? ---

I do think it is productive to say. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#444

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Previous 32 posts were flagged within seconds. If by Dang, please explain shortly what is wrong. Too meta? Manipulation on HN not to be spoken out loud or speculated about? ---

I do think it is productive to say. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#445

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Previous 33 posts were flagged within seconds. If by Dang, please explain shortly what is wrong. Too meta? Manipulation on HN not to be spoken out loud or speculated about? ---

I do think it is productive to say. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#446

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Previous 34 posts were flagged within seconds. If by Dang, please explain shortly what is wrong. Too meta? Manipulation on HN not to be spoken out loud or speculated about? ---

I do think it is productive to say. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#447

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Previous 35 posts were flagged within seconds. If by Dang, please explain shortly what is wrong. Too meta? Manipulation on HN not to be spoken out loud or speculated about? ---

I do think it is productive to say. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#448

Post by chmod600 »

colechristensen wrote: post #370
chmod600 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that say about social media censors and "fact checkers"?

Social media is in a very confuzed middle ground between publisher and public square. I don't want them to be the arbiters of truth nor do I want them to be megaphones for misinformation nor powerful tools for easy population manipulation... but here we are. The solutions aren't just in content moderation, but whatever it is, it is difficult.

"Megaphone" is a bad analogy. You hear a megaphone whether you want to or not, and it interferes with other discussion.

Social media was blocking posts that people wanted to read and even blocked private messages. That's privatized censorship; there's no other word for it.

I am honestly dumbfounded that people are excusing it.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#449

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

you are getting seriously paid for this? or I hit a nerve about your weak shitposting and this is personal now?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#450

Post by deugo »

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Previous 100 posts were flagged within seconds. If by Dang, please explain shortly what is wrong. Too meta? Manipulation on HN not to be spoken out loud or speculated about? ---

I do think it is productive to say. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

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