Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that's possible if your goal is zero (system-altering) malware - pretty much all (with the exception of checkra1n) recent iOS releases have had a jailbreak that works by chaining exploits to break out of the app sandbox and can be installed via just signing an IPA, gain root and install Cydia/other dpkg frontends. Without the app store you would see these making their way to things people can download,…
You're again mistaking security and software safety for anticompetitive business practices. Apple loves to mix this too - after all, their marketing is spending a lot of money persuading it that those two are related. They're not. Even currently, AppStore is not without malware, so they have failed at that goal and us users have paid too great of a price by distortion of no.1 tenement that makes capitalism a function…
Apple-Developer Relations
131–140 of 275 posts
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm, I generally take the pro-Apple stance on this. I don’t want side loading or third party stores. It’s Apples product and they get to decide what features it has, IMHO. I don’t want government committees dictating the security model and software architecture of my phone, thanks. However Marco’s argument is spot on. Apple is saying in Senate hearings that App developers are picking up crumbs from the App Store’s fl…
I also "don’t want government committees dictating the security model", but IMHO it's a big leap from that to advocating against consumer choice within a general purpose product.
If you want to legislate for consumer choice do so but can we stop pretending this is some battle for choice when it's literally about two behemoth corporations arguing over how they split our money.
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#133>If Apple wishes to continue advancing bizarre corporate-accounting arguments, the massive profits from the hardware business are what therefore truly “pay the way” of the App Store, public APIs, developer tools, and other app-development resources, just as the hardware profits must fund the development of Apple’s own hardware, software, and services that make the iPhone appeal to customers. You can ignore everything…
> This is understandable from a business perspective; everyone wants lower costs and higher profits. But it's certainly not in Apple's customers' interests for their business model to change to accommodate developers. I’ll bite. Why not?
This also happens to be more environmentally sustainable, so it's not in society's broader interest for Apple to change their business model.
A world in which Apple only earns profits from hardware sales removes those incentives. Not only would they try to get you to upgrade more often, they'd also invest less R&D in the hardware as well. Instead of doing the iPhone X redesign, with its higher component costs, they'd try to milk the iPhone 6 design for as long as possible.
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that's possible if your goal is zero (system-altering) malware - pretty much all (with the exception of checkra1n) recent iOS releases have had a jailbreak that works by chaining exploits to break out of the app sandbox and can be installed via just signing an IPA, gain root and install Cydia/other dpkg frontends. Without the app store you would see these making their way to things people can download,…
You're again mistaking security and software safety for anticompetitive business practices. Apple loves to mix this too - after all, their marketing is spending a lot of money persuading it that those two are related. They're not. Even currently, AppStore is not without malware, so they have failed at that goal and us users have paid too great of a price by distortion of no.1 tenement that makes capitalism a function…
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#135>If Apple wishes to continue advancing bizarre corporate-accounting arguments, the massive profits from the hardware business are what therefore truly “pay the way” of the App Store, public APIs, developer tools, and other app-development resources, just as the hardware profits must fund the development of Apple’s own hardware, software, and services that make the iPhone appeal to customers. You can ignore everything…
> This is understandable from a business perspective; everyone wants lower costs and higher profits. But it's certainly not in Apple's customers' interests for their business model to change to accommodate developers. I’ll bite. Why not?
Party 1: Apple's store hurts consumers and contributes to making their devices not even real computers, just consumption devices, not for creation! It's a shame and they should be broken up or made to allow other app stores. It's plainly anti-competitive, and anti-choice.
Party 2: Hi, I'm a consumer, and I like that they force 3rd parties not to be shitty. I don't really care how that hurts 3rd parties, as long as Apple's big enough that the 3rd parties can't afford to turn down that slice of the pie so they keep providing me the apps I want. Also I do work & creation on iOS devices, often. So. (here party 2 may or may not concede that it is anti-competitive and they simply don't care since it happens to be benefiting them, and may or may not argue that it's not anti-choice, since without Apple's model the kinds of app store ecosystem model the consumer can choose would be reduced by one)
Party 1: 3rd party stores wouldn't hurt you, you could just not use the apps that move to those if you don't like what they're able to do on the other stores. (this is usually where insults to Party 2's intelligence are placed, and in fact this post is often mostly that, and probably also push-back on allowing other stores representing a reduction of choice, if Party 2 chose to advance that line in the previous post)
Party 2: But... right now I have all the apps I want, and none of them can do things I don't like because Apple doesn't let them. How's it better to replace this situation with multiple app stores, so I might have to choose between privacy and using the apps I want? That seems strictly worse for me. (if the which-kind-of-choice-matters argument is in play, an argument that the ecosystem of Apple's store will be harmed by adding more stores, so in fact Party 2's preferred choice of the current, non-so-harmed App Store ecosystem will be removed by adding more, may be employed)
From here things mostly just go in circles and hypotheticals and examples from Android's Play store, which probably won't be particularly relevant to the much-more-restricted Apple App Store and any hypothetical changes to its position given 3rd party app stores.
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
So Apple’s argument stands… Basically, Apple is a wealthy neighborhood. If you sell nice bags or expensive cars, you want to be near the people who can afford them. So you need to rent store space in the wealthy neighborhood. Where rent is higher than in the outskirts. Sure you could try to sell your goods in the outskirts (the Play Store) but you won’t sell as much. To bring it back to non-metaphors. Apple is the on…
> Apple is the only maker of premium phones So by your own admission, Apple has a monopoly on the premium market, and is using that power to broker their audience for a premium fee to developers who simply want to sell their code to someone who's willing to pay for it? That is one of the most dystopian arguments I've ever heard, bravo.
I’m not seeing how Apple’s behavior is any different than that of other players who have a stronghold in their markets though?
It’s exactly the same with $10.000 rents in San Francisco or super expensive country clubs where you can mingle/deal with fellow rich people: it’s expensive to get access to a scarce resource.
Apple has the scarce resource (people willing to pay for apps) so they charge you a lot of money to access it (30% of your revenue).
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would fewer restrictions on publishing apps that pretend to be other apps somehow improve the situation?
Trust is supposed to be one of the things the AppStore provides, which is used as an argument against third-party stores. But since Apple is failing so miserably in this regard it’s not a good argument.
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#138"The “way” is already paid by the hardware — but Apple uses their position of power to double-dip." I understand the optics of this don't look good, but is it wrong to have multiple sources of revenue derived from the "way"? 1. what happens if supply chain dynamics and smartphone market competition negatively impact the hardware margins? What happens when consumer appetite for innovation in the phone stagnates and ma…
I also don't want the podcasts I subscribe to to have my email. Podcasters claim to want to own the customer and the flow. They only want this for upselling or cross-selling. No. I will pay you through apple-pay without revealing my email, and you can talk about promotions and things in the podcast but otherwise let's leave it at that.
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#139What I care about is getting charged for a developer licence that was never delivered.
Needing a licence to use hardware I paid money for. Without the licence I cannot put apps on the iPad I own connected to the Mac I own, apps I write on said Mac.
Buggy developer tools that they will not fix. Xcode (and its Swift ecosystem) work well for a small project, really great. Until you realise that the debugger is lying about the state of your variables.
Get to 100,000+ lines of code (or whatever measure of size you like, big) Xcode stops working, the tools to navigate your code start getting flaky, the editor with its slick features gets very slow....
And the debugger: It tells lies - but the worst, the very worst, is that in Swift, on iOs comparing a optional to `nil` is unreliable. No shit, this is needed:
if foo == nil { if let _ = nil { // foo is not really nil
About 1% of nil comparisons fail...
A trillion dollar company built off the work of developers and the tools are like this? They take money for access?
Times like this I am glad I am on a salary...
Re: Apple-Developer Relations
#140> Without our apps, the iPhone has little value to most of its customers today. Looking at my iPhone I see no 3rd party apps. I use safari to access websites and eschew any service that wants me to "use our app" and doesn't have a web version.
So your use case effectively represents maybe 1% of iOS/iPadOS users? :P Realistically probably less? Because, as a musician - I should just use the Web App version of GarageBand, right? Because I'm sure the Web App version of GarageBand will run circles around the native version, right? :P And it'll have all the support for things like Audio Bus, USB Midi support, and USB Audio card I/O - of course. And that'll all…
Web apps certainly could have this if Apple wanted them to. Works perfectly find on computers and Android devices.
>Obviously there is not - nor ever will there be - a Web version of ProCreate. Or GarageBand
There absolutely could be, just needs a talented team. Figma is a web app and runs circles around any native app in the design space, nothing too magical going on in ProCreate or Garageband that couldn't be done on the web with a talented team and an OS that didn't intentionally limit it's power.