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Apple-Developer Relations

marco.org

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Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#81

Post by gizmo »

Despegar wrote: post #72

>If Apple wishes to continue advancing bizarre corporate-accounting arguments, the massive profits from the hardware business are what therefore truly “pay the way” of the App Store, public APIs, developer tools, and other app-development resources, just as the hardware profits must fund the development of Apple’s own hardware, software, and services that make the iPhone appeal to customers. You can ignore everything…

That's so uncharitable. Somebody who makes their living off iOS apps obviously doesn't care about the $100 annual developer fee. This isn't just about the contractual dispute, this is also -- as the post clearly explains -- about respect, fairness, and acknowledgement.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#82

Post by shkkmo »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #63

It's a two-way street. Despite selling less than 20% [1] of smartphones across the world, its App Store accounts for over 64% [2] of app revenue. Apple and its developers somehow built an App Store that people are willing to spend more money on. If it's purely thanks to developers, why isn't there more revenue on Google's Play Store? [1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... [2] https://sens…

If Apple's AppStore is really so good, it should be able to withstand a little healthy competition from 3rd party stores. Who knows, a little competition might even inspire the AppStore to become even better?

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#84

Post by mcphage »

pjmlp wrote: post #23
mathgladiator wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm optimistic about WebAssembly, beyond time and investment, what prohibits it from achieve performance parity with native?

Politics. This is what Flash was already capable of doing in 2011 with CrossBridge, their C++ compiler stack. https://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/ "Unreal Engine 3 Support for Adobe Flash Player - Unreal Tournament 3" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQiUP2Hd60Y Here we are 10 years later with WebAssembly still mostly stuck at MVP 1.0, browsers that bork WebGL experience thanks blacklisting, which no matter what…

> This is what Flash was already capable of doing in 2011 with CrossBridge, their C++ compiler stack.

Then why was the Android Flash experience so bad that it got quickly killed off?

There was a time where Adobe could have shown a performant, stable version of mobile Flash, and Apple would have had to find a way to accept it. But it never got there, on any mobile OS.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#85

Post by cageface »

handrous wrote: post #56
actuator wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store should be just the start. Mobile web for more than 50% of the US users is also restricted to Apple's whims. They should be forced to allow competing browser engines(not just skins on Safari engine) on the platform. If Microsoft couldn't even bundle IE on Windows, it should be possible to make an alternative browser(along with engines) for iOS.

Be careful what you wish for. Safari's forced presence on the most lucrative mobile platform is the reason we don't, for all practical purposes, have only one browser engine, period , now. Which is something only nerds like us care about on a technical level, so I don't think the typical user is harmed or bothered by all browsers on iOS sharing an engine, but the social harm of Google 100% owning the Web would reach…

I don't understand this argument. End users don't care about browser engines and they can install "Chrome" right now. But most iOS users don't.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#86

Post by simonh »

enos_feedler wrote: post #30

"The “way” is already paid by the hardware — but Apple uses their position of power to double-dip." I understand the optics of this don't look good, but is it wrong to have multiple sources of revenue derived from the "way"? 1. what happens if supply chain dynamics and smartphone market competition negatively impact the hardware margins? What happens when consumer appetite for innovation in the phone stagnates and ma…

Hmm, I generally take the pro-Apple stance on this. I don’t want side loading or third party stores. It’s Apples product and they get to decide what features it has, IMHO. I don’t want government committees dictating the security model and software architecture of my phone, thanks.

However Marco’s argument is spot on. Apple is saying in Senate hearings that App developers are picking up crumbs from the App Store’s floor and should be grateful for what they get, while reassuring devs that they are what makes iPhone so great. Too many of Apples moves against devs on the store recently have bordered on the abusive. Yes they’re greatly trimmed charges for small dev shops, but the rules on that are awkward and are clearly about optics not substance.

To your questions.

1. Then Apple would have failed to offer a compelling product. There are other phones and app stores out there. If Apple can’t compete with Samsung on the quality of their phones, then they’re not the Apple I know and love anymore. It’s up to them to add value, not leech it off others. They do deserve fair recompense for their services, but that’s all.

2. We know very well what their hardware margins are. From their own filings, their phone hardware margins are over 35%.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#87

Post by mdoms »

If Apple believes they are offering so much value to developers then they should open their devices to other stores. Surely no one would choose a competing store when Apple offers such a great deal to them.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#88

Post by colinmhayes »

minimaxir wrote: post #37
echelon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't like the terms, leave. Apple captured 50% of the American economy. You have no choice. This is why the DOJ must act to bring an end to these anticompetitive behaviors.

50% is not 100%, which matters if you're accusing a company of monopolistic practices. (and why the Epic lawsuit is fighting that gray area)

Don't need to have 100% market share to be anti-trusted in the US. You just need to use your market power in anti-competitive ways that harm consumers.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#89

Post by smoldesu »

enos_feedler wrote: post #79
smoldesu wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the optics of it don't look good, there's a very good chance that it isn't good.

If you read my argument I'm saying the optics don't look good because the margins on phones are high AND they are taking platform fees on top of that. As the margins on phones decrease in the future, the optics won't look as bad.

That's not an excuse for them to be driving such insane margins then. Plus, who's to say that the iPhone doesn't receive another overhaul in the next few years, driving the margins back down? Apple will continue to play this game of cat-and-mouse for as long as you let them, and that's ultimately how they accumulate wealth. It's a campaign almost entirely ran on deception.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#90

Post by leokennis »

smoldesu wrote: post #75
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #63

It's a two-way street. Despite selling less than 20% [1] of smartphones across the world, its App Store accounts for over 64% [2] of app revenue. Apple and its developers somehow built an App Store that people are willing to spend more money on. If it's purely thanks to developers, why isn't there more revenue on Google's Play Store? [1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... [2] https://sens…

Because Apple markets and sells a product to the middle class, who are willing to spend that kind of money. Furthermore, the Indian market is almost entirely ignored by Apple, so it's no wonder that they're able to get Android phones into so many hands. The optics of this check out, are you trying to suggest that Apple's App Store is magically more profitable than Google Play, therefore better?

So Apple’s argument stands…

Basically, Apple is a wealthy neighborhood. If you sell nice bags or expensive cars, you want to be near the people who can afford them. So you need to rent store space in the wealthy neighborhood. Where rent is higher than in the outskirts.

Sure you could try to sell your goods in the outskirts (the Play Store) but you won’t sell as much.

To bring it back to non-metaphors. Apple is the only maker of premium phones. Therefor people who are willing to spend on apps are very often iPhone users. So if you want to reach these people and their money you need to be on the App Store. Apple knows this, and charges developers accordingly for the privilege.

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