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The NFT market bubble has popped?

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Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#281

Post by rmellow »

erulabs wrote: post #252

The overwhelmingly negative attitude towards technology on HN lately is upsetting and nauseating. If you don’t like NFTs, don’t buy them (I don’t). If you don’t like some startups product, don’t sign up. In the Boom thread there are people suggesting it’s fraudulent that they’ve taken longer than originally suggested to build supersonic aircraft. I’d very much like to know who elected the naysayers. There are tons an…

It's hard to ignore the externalities of these crypto adventurers.

1. The enormous carbon footprint spent on something that is 90% a pyramid scheme is absolutely everybody's business. I don't care that you legally paid for the hardware and the electricity bill, it's about the amount of waste generated on something that barely provides a net benefit to humanity.

Yes, there are other industries that are guilty of the same, but it doesn't mean cryptocurrencies get to evade the criticism.

2. It's hard to ignore the fact that I can barely get a decent GPU these days to carry out my research. It's not the sole fault of crypto, but it adds to the problem. Depending on how Chia goes, the market for storage might be affected as well.

3. When we as a society allow scams to thrive, we undermine the general level of trust. Trust has a very real monetary consequence, and we see the effect of this in different societies.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#282

Post by officialjunk »

officialjunk wrote: post #253
erulabs wrote: post #252

The overwhelmingly negative attitude towards technology on HN lately is upsetting and nauseating. If you don’t like NFTs, don’t buy them (I don’t). If you don’t like some startups product, don’t sign up. In the Boom thread there are people suggesting it’s fraudulent that they’ve taken longer than originally suggested to build supersonic aircraft. I’d very much like to know who elected the naysayers. There are tons an…

agree. i suspect the dollar amounts involved in NFT's is causing some sort of envy or anger amongst those that do not understand why.

if the dollar amounts were all less than $1 do you think there would be as much hate?

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#283

Post by NoGravitas »

cturner wrote: post #263
bhandziuk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be pointless to duplicate artwork, because the sold duplicate would effectively destroy the original If someone cares about having a piece of art badly enough to steal it or create a fake do they care at all about what an NFT says about who owns it? I think we live in a world where holding the real thing in your real hands is all that matters.

"I think we live in a world where holding the real thing in your real hands is all that matters." In regions with the rule of law, there are things more important than physical possession - ownership, contract.

Right, but NFTs don't solve those, either. In a dispute between the court and the blockchain, the court wins.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#284

Post by tim333 »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #179
qwerty456127 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will never own a home" is not the only reason. The whole financial system is "fuck you this and fuck you that, incl. when you least expect and depend the most, and we won't tell you why". Yesterday here were news about PayPal terminating an account without explanation again (by the way, even when they don't ban you, their verification and customer services are a disaster anyway). This bullshit has to stop. Every p…

what if the terrorists broke up 1mil into 1000 $1000-transfers?

I'm curious in money laundering laws have ever been noticeably successful in stopping terrorism?

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#285

Post by andrepd »

koheripbal wrote: post #220
ansible wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. And that's because it is true. The vast majority of the financial services industry is designed to screw people over. The only thing an average citizen can do is let them skim off as little money as possible. Buy stocks in solid companies, and hold on to them for a long time. Index mutual fund…

> The vast majority of the financial services industry is designed to screw people over. I don't know where to begin with a comment like this. It's being so heavily reinforced by social media, but is so hyperbolically outside reality that I honestly don't know where to start. It's similar to saying that the vast majority of the medical industry only exists to make people sick. Do people die on the operating table? Su…

Yours is a ridiculous answer. Modern hyper-financialised globalised capitalism has nothing in common with bronze age Egyptian farmers. Obviously one doesn't need to justify everything in the past 5000 years to be allowed to criticise financial industries today. Silly fallacies.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#286

Post by andrepd »

silicon2401 wrote: post #175
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet there are functional societies out there today, much as there were in the past, that are not capitalistic societies. Treating people like shit and forcing them to do dirty jobs you don't want to do under threat of starvation is not an inherent property of the human condition.

What kind of idealistic misunderstanding of history do you have that non-capitalist societies were some kumbaya utopia? Korea historically had slavery and extreme class differences. Europe had nobility and serfs who were not far off from slaves (and could be tortured or executed). Ancient Sparta and Persia had slaves and going way back into biblical times (though this still happens today in some places), people could…

He said some non-capitalist societies, not all non-capitalist societies that have ever existed.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#287

Post by losvedir »

southerntofu wrote: post #70
qwerty456127 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will never own a home" is not the only reason. The whole financial system is "fuck you this and fuck you that, incl. when you least expect and depend the most, and we won't tell you why". Yesterday here were news about PayPal terminating an account without explanation again (by the way, even when they don't ban you, their verification and customer services are a disaster anyway). This bullshit has to stop. Every p…

Maybe if we would question why we (don't) need money in the first place, and why people turn to terrorism, we wouldn't have problems in the first place. Let everyone have a home, eat and drink as much as they need, receive proper education and healthcare, and thrive working for something they see interest in not a paycheck/boss and you'll see terrorism will be entirely rid of. In the meantime, i agree it's a reasonab…

> Let everyone have a home, eat and drink as much as they need, receive proper education and healthcare, and thrive working for something they see interest in not a paycheck/boss and you'll see terrorism will be entirely rid of.

It's a nice thought, but I don't think this is actually true. Osama bin Laden and a number of the 9/11 hijackers were actually well-educated, well-off engineers of various sorts, for example.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#288

Post by cturner »

NoGravitas wrote: post #283
cturner wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think we live in a world where holding the real thing in your real hands is all that matters." In regions with the rule of law, there are things more important than physical possession - ownership, contract.

Right, but NFTs don't solve those, either. In a dispute between the court and the blockchain, the court wins.

"Right, but NFTs don't solve those, either. In a dispute between the court and the blockchain, the court wins."

1) In contracts, you can add a clause that mandates a dispute-resolution process that must take place before either side goes to real courts. These could be codified into the blockchain contracts. If that process is well run, I assume the court will have no reason to over-rule it.

2) In blockchain matters, is there a distinct party to file against? Where there is, do you know who they are? And are they in the same jurisdiction as you?

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#289

Post by Traster »

erulabs wrote: post #252

The overwhelmingly negative attitude towards technology on HN lately is upsetting and nauseating. If you don’t like NFTs, don’t buy them (I don’t). If you don’t like some startups product, don’t sign up. In the Boom thread there are people suggesting it’s fraudulent that they’ve taken longer than originally suggested to build supersonic aircraft. I’d very much like to know who elected the naysayers. There are tons an…

I think those of us who have been around for a while are starting to synthesize the idea of negative externalities. It's no longer good enough to say "Move fast and break things". It's "Hold on, what are you breaking and why?". It's not good enough to continue to live in the care free world that didn't pan out where Facebook just brought people together and hackers don't use bitcoin to extort utility companies..

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#290

Post by cturner »

hiq wrote: post #274
cturner wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It suits the state to run the land registry: (1) a state is a barrier around land, which can be subdivided; (2) the state has incentive to do this; (3) the state can use law and courts to enforce it. There are other problems that need registries where there is no party with inventive and means to act as the state does above. I think the physical-art and wine examples fit that. The key quality of blockchain is that it…

You now seem to describe law (as the often quoted "code as law" hints at), and that a blockchain could replace law where it's insufficient. Do you agree that in these cases, just having adequate laws would make a blockchain useless? > The key quality of blockchain is that it allows groups to form consensus. Even though they compete on some matters, all stakeholders want the platform to succeed. If it doesn't, their i…

"Do you agree that in these cases, just having adequate laws would make a blockchain useless?"

Yes. There are jurisdictions where there is no prospect of this, but the answer to your question is yes.

"Isn't that a company"

Yes.

"as soon as you have something resembling trademark law you can have such a label, even if it's designed by a private association of producers"

Appellation d'origine contrôlée does not show chain of custody, so it's easily copied. But it may be possible to project a registry into low-rule-of-law regions without rule of law.

"Just think about the few comments you wrote in this thread, and what you wish would exist in terms of registries, "synthetic state", and so on. How does removing "blockchain" from this equation What I am proposing is significantly different. make any of what you wrote impossible or even slightly harder?"

Will do.

An attraction of a non-blockchain solution - it is so much easier to write robust code: put an API around a central server, write good acceptance tests.

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