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Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

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Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#31
post #23

Man, that is a classic "Jobs" reply. Detailed, well-reasoned email, acknowledged by a curt one-sentence reply. But that only happened in email. I don't think Jobs liked the written medium. He could talk up a storm. One of the best declarative public speakers I've ever heard (but not an "emotionally eloquent" one, like many preachers).

Don’t think that’s as much a “Jobs” reply as just a general senior management necessity. With the amount of “important” emails you get in a position with any kind of responsibility, writing thoughtful elaborate responses to each and every one would leave you with no time to do your actual job. So you communicate the core message clearly and bluntly, and move on to the next fire.

Also, I don't see what other information was needed here. He was the CEO, he was not supposed to get into implementation details. He gave a green light and left them to do their job.

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#32
post #28

I just realized that more time has elapsed since the iPhone launched (about 14 years: 2007 - 2021) than had between when Jobs returned to Apple and the iPhone launched (about 11 years: 1996-2007). Yikes. Also, the three month deadline helps explain why the iPhoneOS SDK was such a mess when it first launched.

He was leading NextStep right before for ~12 years, iOS SDK is built on top of that effort (NSString - Nextstep string)

NeXT, and here's some more fun history on that: https://web.archive.org/web/20150824224400/http://www.cocoab...

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#33
post #27
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it just... sucks. So many avenues for exploitations for average developers that I'd never trust and install a 3rd party app on such a device that I carry around with me every day. Sure, Apple model is far far from perfect but the only solution I can think of for such a personal device.

There are far more Android devices being shipped and used in the world than iOS devices. In a purely marketshare-based view, Android is winning.

...and I wasn't disputing that. Of course, Android the operating system has more market share.

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#34
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to imagine it. It’s the google android play store situation.

And it just... sucks. So many avenues for exploitations for average developers that I'd never trust and install a 3rd party app on such a device that I carry around with me every day. Sure, Apple model is far far from perfect but the only solution I can think of for such a personal device.

> I'd never trust and install a 3rd party app on such a device that I carry around with me every day.

I don't run any third party apps either. But I like that I am welcome to do so. In the past I have installed apps from third party developers that I trust and am the better for it.

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#35
post #4

Jesus they had 3 months to do it.

Crazy indeed. Although I assume at that point they already had large parts of the SDK implemented for native internal apps and much of those 3-6 months have been spent on public documentation, signing infrastructure etc.

Yeah, people had already been using the private APIs on jailbroken phones. That's still a pretty ambitious timeframe even just to get out all the supporting infrastructure, though.

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#36
post #24
post #8

People on HN have repeatedly said to me that Apple actually originally intended for web apps to be the only apps for the iPhone, forever. I never believed it. Glad we have some evidence that that was never the case. Clearly web apps were a stop-gap until they got their SDK done.

The email shows literally the opposite of what you suggest

[deleted]

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim is directly contradicted by this e-mail exchange from October 2007, the very e-mail exchange in which they decided to move forward with a native app SDK. The iPhone was announced in January 2007, a full 9 months earlier, and was in development for a few years before that. If they "always planned" the App Store, why would Bertrand, one of Steve's direct reports, be writing as if this were a brand new idea?…

OK, so you think an email that starts with "Fine, let's enable Cocoa Touch apps" is presenting "Cocoa Touch apps" as a new idea? Please. It's an idea they'd obviously been discussing. There is no way in hell that Apple, a company that has always, always, always kept very tight control over their platform ever actually planned for web apps to be the one and only type of app for the iPhone. > One of the original iPhone…

> is presenting "Cocoa Touch apps" as a new idea?

Cocoa Touch apps wasn't a new idea, since that's what all of the Apple-developed native iPhone apps used. What's new to this email is getting approval for enabling 3rd parties to write & release them without jailbreaking your phone.

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim is directly contradicted by this e-mail exchange from October 2007, the very e-mail exchange in which they decided to move forward with a native app SDK. The iPhone was announced in January 2007, a full 9 months earlier, and was in development for a few years before that. If they "always planned" the App Store, why would Bertrand, one of Steve's direct reports, be writing as if this were a brand new idea?…

OK, so you think an email that starts with "Fine, let's enable Cocoa Touch apps" is presenting "Cocoa Touch apps" as a new idea? Please. It's an idea they'd obviously been discussing. There is no way in hell that Apple, a company that has always, always, always kept very tight control over their platform ever actually planned for web apps to be the one and only type of app for the iPhone. > One of the original iPhone…

Ah yeah, the deluded (you) thinking everybody else are the insane ones.

If you look back at that time period, the "Fine!" surely came about because iPhone jailbreakers had extracted the API from the apps and were making their own Cocoa Touch apps and sideloading it onto the iPhone. "Let's enable" sounds like they decided to open it up to the public, if your theory about stop-gaps is correct I would've expected the wording to be "Fine, let's enable CT apps early.". The rest of the email also talks about the jail which is the app store, which seems to be a rough concept of "What we need to make this happen", rather than something that they've been preparing in the background.

It looks more like you're having a stockholm syndrome with your own "knowledge".

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#39

Man, that is a classic "Jobs" reply. Detailed, well-reasoned email, acknowledged by a curt one-sentence reply. But that only happened in email. I don't think Jobs liked the written medium. He could talk up a storm. One of the best declarative public speakers I've ever heard (but not an "emotionally eloquent" one, like many preachers).

I also found Bertrand's email concise and to the point while still being very informative.

Covered all the bases, without requiring a PowerPoint or some long drawn out document to make his case.

The whole thing is 7 sentences but lays the foundational principles of the App Store that persists to this day.

Re: Cocoa Touch apps (2007)

#40
post #23

Man, that is a classic "Jobs" reply. Detailed, well-reasoned email, acknowledged by a curt one-sentence reply. But that only happened in email. I don't think Jobs liked the written medium. He could talk up a storm. One of the best declarative public speakers I've ever heard (but not an "emotionally eloquent" one, like many preachers).

Don’t think that’s as much a “Jobs” reply as just a general senior management necessity. With the amount of “important” emails you get in a position with any kind of responsibility, writing thoughtful elaborate responses to each and every one would leave you with no time to do your actual job. So you communicate the core message clearly and bluntly, and move on to the next fire.

I think a good example of this would be Tim Cook’s email to Phil Schiller on why the Mac’s App Store wasn’t taking off, which was revealed during the Epic Games v Apple trial: https://mobile.twitter.com/benedictevans/status/139681157744...

Cook sees the fire, gives a brief thought, and leaves it to Schiller on Christmas Eve to figure out why it started and how to fix it.

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