The NFT market bubble has popped? • Hacker News Board

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#191

Post by tw04 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

nly wrote: post #28

powerapple wrote: post #6

One thing I have noticed when listening to the interviews of NFT companies is that, when describing NFT is the future, the arguments from these founders are examples of people/artists made money by selling NFT online. It has become more and more a theme for cryptocurrency technology has well: the reason you should be in is that other people have made money rather than the benefit of the technology itself. It is not a…

Imho it stems from a lack of understanding and faith in the financial services industry, probably exacerbated by the financial crisis. A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. There's a strong sense of "Fuck You, I Got Mine" from the last generation, so the current generation is saying "Fine, I'm going to invent my own system... with B…

>A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich.

And what on earth makes them think cryptocurrency doesn't exist simply to make an elite minority rich? Just because it might be a different minority doesn't change the equation. And oh by the way, there is absolutely 0 government protections in the new system. Don't get me wrong, over the last 70 years a lot of the protections in existing financial institutions have been watered down, but I'll still take an FDIC backing on my bank account over: "oh no we got "hacked" and all of your wallets are gone, sorry about that!"

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#192

Post by faeyanpiraat » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

FranchuFranchu wrote: post #123

alexgmcm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto (and NFTs in particular) remind me of the tale of The Emperor's New Clothes. I accept that maybe Ethereum could be valuable (I don't really understand smart contracts well enough to say..) and if they move to proof-of-stake that will make it more sustainable. Likewise, the sheer anonymity of something like Monero might be valuable for the black market. But everything else just seems like people seeking a "grea…

Any trade of any thing with no inherent value is just people seeking a "greater fool".

You forgot an edge case where something has inherent value (like a cup) but has overblown valuation (used by some king), and is sold at an auction to bigger fools.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#193

Post by s-lambert » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

didericis wrote: post #98

simias wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that really works with cryptocurrencies and adjacent technologies is to use them for pyramid schemes and using them for illegal payments like buying things on the darknet or paying ransomware. The rest is just empty promises and short term hype. NFT is just the last in a long series. Before that we had the Lightning network that would revolutionize payments and make cryptocurrencies actually usable, IC…

Cryptocurrencies have also been used as a way to escape hyperinflation and retain savings despite a coercive and highly restrictive government, eg Venezuela. When a system becomes corrupt and dysfunctional and normal transactions and savings become ineffective or illegal, cryptocurrencies have proven themselves as a viable means of escape. The value of that is hard to understate. I agree that a lot of other applicati…

In cases like Venezuala, what's the long-term goal of holding crpyto though? That the country somehow collapses and is rebuilt with a normally inflationary currency with a less restrictive government? Or is the idea that you build up savings to eventually leave the country?

It doesn't really seem like a long-term solution or one that'd help more than a small amount of people.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#194

Post by hiq » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

SuchAnonMuchWow wrote: post #164

mypastself wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand it, producing entropy, which is needed for fair distribution of odds in games of chance, is not achievable directly on the blockchain. Instead, the job of producing non-deterministic inputs is offloaded to an off-chain source, an oracle, which still requires some degree of trust in an external entity. My information might be out of date, though, and some implementations might have resolved this…

You can just make the participants of a bet provide each a random number, and xor their results. If even one of them picked a real random number, the result will be random. This is the basis of most distributed random number selection algorithm, which existed since a lot before blockchains. In a smart contract, it could look like something like that: 1- each person which want to participate in the bet pick a random n…

With your scheme, on Ethereum at least, miners have an advantage since they choose which transactions to include in a block they mine. So a miner would only process the random numbers sent in 2. if it results in a win for them.

Of course there is more than one miner etc., but having a positive expected outcome is enough to be worth it to play.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#195

Post by Applejinx » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

southerntofu wrote: post #160

lotsofpulp wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm opposed to financial compensation (and all forms of money) as an organizing principle of society. What does this mean? It is the nature of animals to evaluate and rank each other, least of all for mating purposes. Not using money will not change that, and another proxy will be used. > Specifically about COVID though, I don't know about where you are, but here in France "thank you" for health workers was perceiv…

> It is the nature of animals to evaluate and rank each other Not at all. Competition is not the norm in the natural world. There's the entire field of ethology to study if you'd like to know more. If you need a quick intro, "Mutual Aid" by Peter Kropotkin is really dated science-wise (it's almost 120 years old) but is still a pretty good read. If you're into TV stuff, i'd recommend Adam Curtis' series "The trap" and…

What ethology tells us is that, yes, but a little more.

Competition IS relevant, but it's in the context of other drives like group-oriented behavior, and it is cooperation that some people seem to have a hard time understanding. Cooperation and group behavior is every bit as powerful and rewarding as competition is, and every bit as natural.

I feel like we get into trouble when we try to isolate one side of things and dismiss the other. You're correct that western societies (probably not exclusively western societies) have erred, in leaning way over to the 'competition' side.

You could say law of the jungle except for jungles don't operate in this simplistic way. More like law of the capitalism, which tries to deify one behavior and demonize the other.

I'm not convinced Kropotkin is the final answer here, but he sure serves as a good window into the 'cooperate' side which is unreasonably suppressed in western society.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#196

Post by cma » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #81

tomp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFTs are like taking a Picasso, making a copy, shredding the original, and signing a paper that says the copy is actually the “real one”. 100% the same thing

Or the owner of Picasso asking you if you want virtual token of his Picasso. You give him some money, and you get to say you own token of Picasso. While the person still owns and can sell the original. He could even get cut out of the further sales of Picasso even after he sold it... And I suppose technically nothing stops new owner of the physical object making new token of this time "his Picasso"...

It could even turn out later that he sold another 1000 tokens of it earlier that were hidden until a timed smart contract revealed them.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#197

Post by tachyonbeam » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #191

nly wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho it stems from a lack of understanding and faith in the financial services industry, probably exacerbated by the financial crisis. A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. There's a strong sense of "Fuck You, I Got Mine" from the last generation, so the current generation is saying "Fine, I'm going to invent my own system... with B…

>A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. And what on earth makes them think cryptocurrency doesn't exist simply to make an elite minority rich? Just because it might be a different minority doesn't change the equation. And oh by the way, there is absolutely 0 government protections in the new system. Don't get me wrong, over the last…

Same. I lost a small but nonzero amount when a fraudulent crypto exchange went bust. There's a reason FDIC protection exists. This is going to be unpopular, but the value proposition for cryptos isn't there yet IMO. It's either "get rich quick" or "buy drugs online". It really isn't "convenient way to transfer money" yet. I'd rather invest in companies that are actually doing something useful. The value of those seems generally less likely to evaporate overnight. Why would I want to own dogecoins when I can own shares of companies that are changing the world?

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#198

Post by spinny » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #191

nly wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho it stems from a lack of understanding and faith in the financial services industry, probably exacerbated by the financial crisis. A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. There's a strong sense of "Fuck You, I Got Mine" from the last generation, so the current generation is saying "Fine, I'm going to invent my own system... with B…

>A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. And what on earth makes them think cryptocurrency doesn't exist simply to make an elite minority rich? Just because it might be a different minority doesn't change the equation. And oh by the way, there is absolutely 0 government protections in the new system. Don't get me wrong, over the last…

oh no we got "hacked" only happens if you leave your crypto on an exchange. It's not yours until it's under your control

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#199

Post by Applejinx » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #96

southerntofu wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there sufficient people interested in ... ? There's people interested in caring for others and/or growing food on the countryside. Cleaning toilets is a task nobody does by pleasure but i don't see a reason there should be a specific class in society handling undesired tasks for the others. Why can't we take turns doing what HAS TO be done? I've lived in communities for about two decades now and it's never ever…

I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. There’s a whole theory of competitive advantage [0] where I’m better doing some things than others. I’d rather do the thing I’m good at and use the money to pay others to do stuff I’m marginally worse off doing. I’ve lived in communities for a few decades and every day it crosses my mind that I want to establish a price for someone to come clean my toilet. [0] https:…

When my parents were alive, in their retirement, they'd hire 'Merry Maids' to come and clean for them. As near as I could tell, they were very nice about it, and I remember being over there and the amusing interplay as the maids tried very hard to not impose on the family visiting going on, while the kids tried just as hard to arrange where they were at to not get in the way of the maids :) it was a very Alphonse and Gaston, 'oh no, after you!' sort of thing.

I feel like the real litmus test here is: given that the maid is cleaning your toilet, would you freak out if the maid took a dump in your toilet AND then cleaned it? That cuts to the heart of whether they're a fellow human doing exchange-value with you as a true equal, or whether they're a class that should not be using the employer's private toilet.

I would bet you maid services like that are very strict about not blurring that line, knowing that some people are paying to set up a class dynamic they expect to be honored.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#200

Post by lifeisstillgood » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #109

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #17

These cycles are getting faster: 1. I read a post on HN extolling a new use of some technology. I understand how it works but don't get why . I do not jump on the bandwagon. 2. I read about the same technology but not on HN - maybe an online newspaper. I recognise there is an upcurve. Maybe I should have jumped when I read it on HN. 3. Beeple makes a fortune. My son and I enjoy watching him on corridor crew. I think…

You forgot 3.5, the step where A16Z breathlessly extols the technology in 5 podcast episodes and start a fund focusing on it...

Fair enough. I have a lot of respect for Andressen (with some caveats held as well) and his ability to spot oncoming waves.

The whole all-in on crypto is one area I am still unsure on (even after coinbase went public for however many billions). Great investment - but is it great foresight ?

On the other hand I will support his call "double down on democracy".