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Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

theguardian.com

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Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#221

Post by namdnay »

TimPC wrote: post #204
namdnay wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Won't work because all truly wealthy people can secure their wealth against inflation, while poor people cannot. I don't agree with this. The "truly wealthy" don't have any magic recipes that are better long-term than just MSCI World ETF or similar > As a simple example, consider owning a house vs. renting. If you own the house, the actual number doesn't matter. If you're renting, the ratio between rent and salary…

What makes you think salaries will suddenly increase in lockstep when they’ve been increasing slower than inflation since about 1970?

> they’ve been increasing slower than inflation since about 1970

where? definitely not in china or india. not in france, the UK or germany either

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#222

Post by TimPC »

pydry wrote: post #97
roenxi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you redirect $100 million away from Microsoft's research into artificial intelligence and redirect it to a government project promoting artificial intelligence research + junkets for government employees. It is certainly plausible that a tax will provide no additional benefit. Microsoft is one of the great value creators of the late 20th/early 21st century. it is not immediately obvious why redirecting money away…

It's interesting that you said redirect $100 million away from Microsoft's research (cost) rather than Microsoft's shareholders pockets. Were you deliberately or accidentally confusing the two?

If you just want to redirect money from shareholders reduce corporate tax rates to 0% and tax dividends and capital gains more. Since they aren’t doing that they are admitting they want to tax money that corporations would re-invest.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#223

Post by tonfa »

oblio wrote: post #100
breakfastduck wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't fair at all. If you're opening a location in another country, and that location takes X in revenue, the tax should be paid in that country. Why on earth do you think its fair for US based organizations to spread across the globe, reap the huge profits from that but funnel all the cash back into the US?

> Why on earth do you think its fair for US based organizations to spread across the globe, reap the huge profits from that but funnel all the cash back into the US Random guess, they're American :-) Facebook, Google & co. are absolutely ravaging local economies, pardon me, disrupting legacy economies all over the world and a small chunk of that ends up as compensation in the US. The rest of that, FAANG are just sitt…

I'm not from US. And it works the same for most countries, it just happens that those companies are based on the US and very visible, but if there is a EU corp that's heavily successful and all the development is done in EU why wouldn't the profit be booked in EU?

(Other countries mostly have sales, that's what sales/vat are for)

If instead of being a digital company it was a physical good company, would it be so controversial? E.g. goods are designed/produced in Italy, shipped and sold abroad (as a start in totally independent shops). Who should book the profit? Usually that will be the manufacturer and the local foreign stores have a much smaller margin.

If now those shops are arm-length subsidiary, why should it be different?

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#224

Post by bramjans »

EMM_386 wrote: post #164

What is the solution to this? I've wracked my brain and can't come up with anything. Companies will just continue to flee to whatever country is now offering 0%. Christmas Island has a new 0% corporate tax policy? Let's go buy a mailbox there and move our "headquarters". The old-school thinking is that low corporate tax policies encourage business, creating jobs in the process and boosting that country's economy. In…

I can recommend "The Triumph of Injustice: How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay" by economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman for some concrete ideas on how to fix this problem.

Some ideas seemed a bit unlikely, but overall great refreshing read in my opinion.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#225

Post by Opt_Out_Fed_IRS »

I'd rather have my money in the hands of Microsoft and Google vis-a-vis Federal and State Government (in the case of Europe it's Regional)

They not only return money to government via their mega cash warchest (which is made up of T-bills) but they also have more productive ways to employ those dollars compared to governments.

Also even if they were to pocket them, at least they are far away, whereas the corruption of governments causes your hated neighbor or the asshole mayor to pocket government cash .

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#226

Post by seaourfreed »

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens.

88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem.

$3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 88% came from workers.

US Federal Tax Revenues (2019): $3.5 Trillion

SOURCE: https://www.google.com/search?q=us+tax+revenues+2019&oq=us+t...

US Capital Gains (2018): $170 Billion (4.8%)

SOURCE: https://taxfoundation.org/federal-capital-gains-tax-collecti...

US Corporate Taxes: 3.9% of US Tax Revenues

https://taxfoundation.org/us-tax-revenue-2021/#:~:text=Corpo...

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#227

Post by TimPC »

tasogare wrote: post #33
fallingknife wrote: post #12

Why can't governments learn that taxing corporations is pointless? The same revenue is can be raised more simply through sales tax and personal income tax on salaries and distributions.

> Why can't governments learn that taxing corporations is pointless? Pure ideological point of view with no grounding in reality. It's totally possible to tax corporations. In fact, some state like Japan and South Korean get more money from enterprises than individuals, the reverse of Europe and US (until recently consumption tax was 5% in Japan, now is 8%, still far less than EU's typical 20%). The solution you prop…

Most economists support a 0% corporate tax rate and higher taxes on dividends and capital gains. This closes most loopholes and doesn’t tax money that corporations reinvest in growing the economy.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#228

Post by Grustaf »

igravious wrote: post #179
yunohn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay easily 40%+ effective tax on my income in NL. Not sure why you’re so dismissive of the poster.

Because many people in Western countries do not fully appreciate how well off they are in global terms. https://www.icalculator.info/netherlands/income-tax-rates/20... 37.35% Income from €0.00 to €68,507.00 49.5% Income from €68,507.01 and above Therefore if you are (for instance) paying 40+% effective tax on your income in the Netherlands you're clearly earning north of €70k a year. To put that in context – “You Are…

You can pay tax at a high rate and still be well off, there is no contradiction. In fact the highest tax rates tend to be in the most comfortable countries, in Northern Europe.

Nobody is saying "I would rather move to Sudan and lower my tax rate".

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#229

Post by ornornor »

new_here wrote: post #182

Take a moment to comprehend those numbers: FY18/19 - under $10bn profit FY19/20 - $314.7bn profit (3/4 of Ireland's GDP) and paid no tax on it. > The subsidiary, which collects licence fees for use of copyrighted Microsoft software around the world, recorded an annual profit of $314.7bn in the year to the end of June 2020, according to accounts filed at the Irish Companies Registration Office. Its profits jumped from…

And seen in another thread: Microsoft is lobbying the US govt to spend 250 million to make more software engineers by introducing computer courses in schools so that there are more SE on the market in the future so that they can hire for cheaper.

Meanwhile, individuals are paying 20–50% income tax.

What a wonderful world.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#230

Post by rmah »

sbennettmcleish wrote: post #7

220bn profit? Really? Surely they mean "revenue"

Microsoft did not even make that much revenue in the 2020 fiscal year. Total global revenues were $143B and total global net income (aka profit) was $44. It was the a very good year for Microsoft. But £220B (apx $310B) in profits is laughable.

The reporters might have been looking at the "total assets" line of MSFT's financials, which was $301B at the end of FY2020. But you don't pay tax on total assets. Just speculation on my part.

These reporters can't even check basic facts.

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