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Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

arstechnica.com

51–60 of 219 posts

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#51
ooh it looks like you can download the sdk from here: https://developer.harmonyos.com/en/develop/deveco-studio

Might give it a spin this weekend.

Edit: Locally you can only run project templates that have [Lite] in their name, maybe in the future they will make other simulators available. Signing up for remote emulation is too much of a effort for me.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#52

Fascinating to see how much is 'inspired' by Apple's design and Microsoft's for the document app. I'd feel dirty in so blatantly copying someone else's design, but Huawei doesn't share those concerns. Maybe for good reason.

Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things? Perhaps it's time we recognised ideas and concepts are meant to be taken up and extended by other people? That's how humans have progressed these thousands of years. Not by paranoid, corporate silos and NIH syndrome and draconian patents.

> Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things?

I don't think the comparison holds at all: Yoga is something people do in many different ways, not a specific product, nor is 'the western world' a single entity. When I do Yoga I am not selling my attempt at whatever 'real' yoga is for profit.

This comparison might have made sense, mind you, not much, if I had said that other companies should feel dirty for making tablets after the first one was made.

> Perhaps it's time we recognised ideas and concepts are meant to be taken up and extended by other people?

I agree with this and is a bit stating the obvious. This is, as you say, basically how mankind works.

To be clear I don't think Huawei should be prevented from doing this, I just think it is unauthentic which I don't like. It is purely an expression of my dislike of what they've created not a call to action for some team of lawyers.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#53
The early MIUIs were something like a perfected iOS "copycat", and they were really nice operating systems.

You do all know that traditional chinese/japanese art starts learning by copying for years, right?

Different cultures percieve copying at a very different level - deal with it.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#54
> Another major nit I have to pick with HarmonyOS is its lack of access and transparency. Just accessing the SDK and emulator required me to go through an insane process that involved uploading a photo of my US passport and credit card to Huawei’s servers so that I could be approved to access the SDK after a two-day waiting period. Most companies just have a download link. You don’t get to run the emulator locally on your computer, where it could be inspected more thoroughly—instead, it runs remotely on a server in China somewhere, and video of it is streamed to your computer. After we wrote our article, Huawei took down the emulator and blocked “overseas” users from downloading the SDK.

Essentially useless for me then.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#55

Fascinating to see how much is 'inspired' by Apple's design and Microsoft's for the document app. I'd feel dirty in so blatantly copying someone else's design, but Huawei doesn't share those concerns. Maybe for good reason.

Let the best win, isn't that our modern capitalism's answer?

If Huawei is copying they will always lag behind. Still, are they really copying? or are they piecing innovations together into a new improved product?

Give them a break and a chance to bring something new - sanctions and all, it is pretty impressive they have persevered.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#56
post #32
post #4

more details here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/huaweis-harmonyos-wi...

Thanks - that seems more informative than the corporate page, so I've switched the URL from https://consumer.huawei.com/en/harmonyos/ .

It is also kinda biased and just stuck at the old this just a copy of Android record.

For example the release notes mentions a new JS UI framework at the OS level with the potential to replace Android Java completely.

Had Google or Apple done this it would be sitting pretty on the hn front page for days.

Here it is just ignored in the politics of Huawei.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some more hints at what’s in it in the technical release notes: https://gitee.com/openharmony/docs/blob/master/en/release-no... Looks they have added a new JS UI framework at os level. Probably to replace Android eventually. Going pure JS (rather than Android Java or something else) I think will be a big plus for developer adaption.

If I'm not mistaken java can still be used according to the HarmonyOS developer documentation. Hope they will add a wasm runtime in the future. Might be interesting to see how a third non western eco system will develop over the year. But they should release their sdk in the west soon so people might start tinkering.

There is some stuff here:

https://gitee.com/openharmony/docs/tree/master/docker

What exactly is a bit unclear and I don't know why it is inside the docs repository.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things? Perhaps it's time we recognised ideas and concepts are meant to be taken up and extended by other people? That's how humans have progressed these thousands of years. Not by paranoid, corporate silos and NIH syndrome and draconian patents.

wtf? How can you copy Yoga?! You can copy a design language tho

You wouldn't download a yoga.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#59

Just wanted to point out that this whole ecosystem is built on the principle of "censorship first." If you take a look at the docs [1], you'll notice that they're not hosted on GitHub (which allows content critical of the CCP), but rather on Gitee, which is a Chinese-grown alternative. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, and you'll see the option "违法和不良信息举报中心": "Control Panel for Reporting Illegal and Harmful Info…

I am against censorship in china in principle. However: 1) in article 2, it says "pornography, lewd conversations, nudity, graphic images and curse words — as well as unauthorized livestreaming sales and content that violated copyright." I think there is a real need for legal framework for content that are harmful for the society. China's online content laws also protects the society from child pornography, fraud, etc. And in the light of the harm of fake news and disinformation can have on the society, as people can see with covid19, there needs to be boundaries with speech. We could have laws govern internet space as well, just like how laws enacted through a democratic process can govern the physical world. As lives are more and more lived in the internet world, we could have laws to govern that world. Though I think there should be a legal due process, like with any law and law enforcement. If my speech is taken down on the internet, let me review the evidence, and let me appeal in a "court", let an independent judiciary judge if I am guilty or not. 2) censorship in china is instituted by the government, no business person could get away with it, they have to operate in that environment. Do the business person or the technologists want to do it? Absolutely not, its a hassle and more work on their part. But to survive in that business environment, they have to do it. These people just want to found these companies and conduct this line of business to earn money and earn a living. These people have families to feed and expensive mortgage to pay. No one wants to get into politics, ideologies. If you really want that every technologists should promote core ideals of freedom and free expression, even under these censorship, these apps in china are already allowing people to spread ideas and access information much better than before. Even under censorship, chinese people still read stories critical of government policies, corruptions, controversies etc that were impossible before the internet age (I read a large number of posts critical of one child policy and government worker implementation of it a few days ago). And the internet is still helping the society change. I wouldn't say these companies are complicit with censorship, because they won't exist if they didn't comply. Chinese government would shut down everyone of these internet services if they won't comply with the rules. And by being available they are still supporting more information accesses then when they weren't available. In my view, in some way, these people behind these companies are victims of the system as well.

Re: Huawei replaces Android with HarmonyOS, which is also Android

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of any significant nation that has caved to orchestrated, vested moral outrage and said "sorry you guys... we'll hold elections next years and play by your rules henceforth", Governments regularly cave in due to protests in democratic countries. It happened in the Netherlands a few months ago, for example. Moreover, it's fundamentally important the fact that protests exist. Comparing any western democ…

[flagged]

> Or perhaps not acknowledging that under the umbrella of democracy the same things happen, is whataboutism.

No. That may be denial, but “whataboutism” is a variant (or, really, just a different name for) the tu quoque fallacy that deflects criticism by accusing the critic of hypocritically ignoring the same action they criticize when committed by a friendly party (or committing it themselves).

A critic denying that a friendly party engages in the act they are criticizing isn’t “whataboutism”. It may or may not be hypcocrisy, denialism, or something else, but its not whataboutism.

OTOH, accusing a critic of whataboutism (and invoking a nonstandard – indeed inverted – definition of “whataboutism” to do it) when they point out whataboutism as a deflection technique, so as to deflect the criticism contained in the original accusation of whataboutism is advanced-level whataboutism.

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