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Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

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Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#31

Post by seventytwo »

oceliker wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be a SMB speedrun video if it didn't have the bus analogy. Jokes aside, Summoning Salt is a great Youtube channel, and it makes me feel emotionally invested in speedruns of games I've never heard of before. Great storytelling. Not to mention that speedruns (and the glitches people find to get world record times) are pretty interesting from a computer science standpoint.

I found it to be very similar to science at large - the idea that there’s a community nibbling away at the edges of the unoknown, working in collaboration (and some competition) to maximize something.

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#32

Post by stormbrew »

sciolistse wrote: post #22
to11mtm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot of games do require controllers that are at least no more capable than one that came with the console though. An example of this would be if the original controller won't let you press both left and right at the same time, and being able to do so gives an unfair advantage due to the way the game was programmed (I think Castlevania SOTN is one of these.)

This is generally handled by an input cleaner, either in the controller itself if you hook it up to an original system, or via an emulator if you're using one. In the case of SMB1 L+R is disallowed (and it does give some in game time advantages) and all allowed emulators will give 'neutral' inputs if you press both L and R simultaneously so it will act as if you've pressed neither.

On the NES or SNES and any console with a dpad like those (which was patented by nintendo so until that expired there were other designed), it's actually just physically impossible. The directions are on a physical rocker that can't be pressed in two parallel directions at once.

Though if the controller pcb is really worn down by the rocker's center nub, it can start to become possible, and then there really is nothing stopping you. It's not uncommon for really well-loved controllers to end up like this.

It's definitely a letter-of-the-law thing where you could claim "but it's an original controller!" but no speedrun leaderboard is gonna let you get away with it.

Also I don't think emulators do a neutral input if you press both, that would be quite weird (and unlike how it happens with a real controller when you move from one to the other). Instead I think they prioritize the first input.

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#33

Post by sciolistse »

stormbrew wrote: post #32
sciolistse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally handled by an input cleaner, either in the controller itself if you hook it up to an original system, or via an emulator if you're using one. In the case of SMB1 L+R is disallowed (and it does give some in game time advantages) and all allowed emulators will give 'neutral' inputs if you press both L and R simultaneously so it will act as if you've pressed neither.

On the NES or SNES and any console with a dpad like those (which was patented by nintendo so until that expired there were other designed), it's actually just physically impossible. The directions are on a physical rocker that can't be pressed in two parallel directions at once. Though if the controller pcb is really worn down by the rocker's center nub, it can start to become possible, and then there really is nothi…

Yeah on original NES/SNES controllers the rocker physically prevented this. I was mostly referring to some third party controllers like say the 'hitbox' which go through an input cleaner before sending it to the system.

The way emulators handle L+R depends a bit.. For SMB1 specifically you're allowed to use an up to date version of Nestopia, Bizhawk, FCEUX or OpenEMU, all of which by default give neutral inputs if you press L+R (I don't recall if OpenEMU works this way but I believe it does.) There are other emulators like older versions of Bizhawk which gave priority to your latest input, or older versions of Mesen which gave priority to left and down. I'm sure other methods of handling L+R exist as well.

Which method is most correct is debateable, and sometimes contentious! :)

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#34

Post by fourseventy »

seventytwo wrote: post #31
oceliker wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be a SMB speedrun video if it didn't have the bus analogy. Jokes aside, Summoning Salt is a great Youtube channel, and it makes me feel emotionally invested in speedruns of games I've never heard of before. Great storytelling. Not to mention that speedruns (and the glitches people find to get world record times) are pretty interesting from a computer science standpoint.

I found it to be very similar to science at large - the idea that there’s a community nibbling away at the edges of the unoknown, working in collaboration (and some competition) to maximize something.

I was just thinking the same thing today!

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#35

Post by Lucasoato »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #25
oceliker wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be a SMB speedrun video if it didn't have the bus analogy. Jokes aside, Summoning Salt is a great Youtube channel, and it makes me feel emotionally invested in speedruns of games I've never heard of before. Great storytelling. Not to mention that speedruns (and the glitches people find to get world record times) are pretty interesting from a computer science standpoint.

Came here to add comments about Summoning Salt as well. I don't follow speedruns at all; but, I really love his work and I absolutely echo the sentiment that he will get you emotionally invested in his content. As an interesting aside, not only does he make great documentary style videos about Speed running, he also happens to be the current (as of June 2021) world record holder for Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! https://ww…

Yeah, I've never been in the speedrun community but that guy puts so much passion in his videos that you feel like you belong in it.

It's incredible, you're completely engaged from the beginning to the end of the video.

I don't wanna give you spoilers, but really check his video about Super Mario sunshine speedrunning.

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#37

Post by kllrnohj »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #25
oceliker wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be a SMB speedrun video if it didn't have the bus analogy. Jokes aside, Summoning Salt is a great Youtube channel, and it makes me feel emotionally invested in speedruns of games I've never heard of before. Great storytelling. Not to mention that speedruns (and the glitches people find to get world record times) are pretty interesting from a computer science standpoint.

Came here to add comments about Summoning Salt as well. I don't follow speedruns at all; but, I really love his work and I absolutely echo the sentiment that he will get you emotionally invested in his content. As an interesting aside, not only does he make great documentary style videos about Speed running, he also happens to be the current (as of June 2021) world record holder for Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! https://ww…

His video on Mike Tyson punch-out progression was fantastic. It was such a shock when he super casually starts talking about his own contributions to the record like it was anyone else's.

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#38

Post by undersuit »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #7

It‘s probably way too late to change the rules now, but even though it‘s totally legal according to the rules on the leaderboards, using a keyboard seems like quite a difference from using a controller, and from the end of the video, sounds like it does make certain moves easier.

So I'm going to use the GameCube controller with the keyboard in the middle or I'll make a custom controller board or use a high end fighting games pad.

Though an original NES controller speedrun coming close should definitely be a legit accomplishment.

Re: Super Mario Bros: The Human Limit

#39

Post by Agentlien »

oceliker wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be a SMB speedrun video if it didn't have the bus analogy. Jokes aside, Summoning Salt is a great Youtube channel, and it makes me feel emotionally invested in speedruns of games I've never heard of before. Great storytelling. Not to mention that speedruns (and the glitches people find to get world record times) are pretty interesting from a computer science standpoint.

Summoning Salt and pannenkoek2012 really helped me understand and appreciate speedrunnning.

I don't follow the speedrunning scene, but I always get really excited when Summoning Salt releases a new video.

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