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Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

nature.com

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Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#421

Post by toolz »

thebruce87m wrote: post #419
toolz wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

norway locked down with less stringency than sweden - you can see that using the only objective measurements of lockdown stringency (that I know of) in the oxford stringency index I'm not sure why you would state something completely incorrect so confidently - if you had in fact been arguing with people over that point I would expect you to have come across the most basic data behind your point. https://i.imgur.com/o…

Your assertions don't fit with the data you shared. The Y axis shows strictness and Norway has peaks that are higher and therefore stricter. I suspect you know this given you tried to double-down on it immediately. If we are playing "No true Scotsman" with the lockdowns and dragging Sweden in, how would you explain Greece vs Sweden? Excess Deaths per 100k [0] Sweden: 102 Greece: 38 There is simply no compelling evide…

a single comparison really does nothing, here's japan vs sweden that shows the exact opposite - neither of these comparisons are useful for anything other than a datapoint that should be used to study the larger issue alongside all the other data we have

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?ta...

deaths per million: japan: 103.81 sweden: 1,404.99

again, even though my single datapoint is a much stronger contrast - these single datapoints are not useful as evidence for/against lockdowns

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#422

Post by thebruce87m »

toolz wrote: post #421
thebruce87m wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assertions don't fit with the data you shared. The Y axis shows strictness and Norway has peaks that are higher and therefore stricter. I suspect you know this given you tried to double-down on it immediately. If we are playing "No true Scotsman" with the lockdowns and dragging Sweden in, how would you explain Greece vs Sweden? Excess Deaths per 100k [0] Sweden: 102 Greece: 38 There is simply no compelling evide…

a single comparison really does nothing, here's japan vs sweden that shows the exact opposite - neither of these comparisons are useful for anything other than a datapoint that should be used to study the larger issue alongside all the other data we have https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?ta... deaths per million: japan: 103.81 sweden: 1,404.99 again, even though my single datapoint is a much s…

It does do something. It proves you can lockdown without the lockdown itself causing significant excess mortality and gives more credence (as if it’s needed) to the excess mortality that is being seen in other countries being caused purely by COVID.

COVID skeptics are full of assertions such as: It’s just the flu, PCR tests are worthless, the lockdown is killing more people than it’s saving, suicides are way up, we won’t have a second wave etc. When these are proven false they come up with a new assertion, ignoring that they have been wrong about every assertion so far. The scary thing is they seem to sing from the same hymn sheet, so they are being fed this information from somewhere.

It doesn’t matter so much now that people are getting vaccinated, but the vocal minority was a real risk to the integrity of the measures such as lockdowns. If you get a critical mass of people believing this BS then you’ve got a real problem. We’ve seen how the Q-Anon misinformation movement has had real consequences but people seem oblivious when they are being fed FUD about COVID.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#423

Post by toolz »

thebruce87m wrote: post #422
toolz wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a single comparison really does nothing, here's japan vs sweden that shows the exact opposite - neither of these comparisons are useful for anything other than a datapoint that should be used to study the larger issue alongside all the other data we have https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?ta... deaths per million: japan: 103.81 sweden: 1,404.99 again, even though my single datapoint is a much s…

It does do something. It proves you can lockdown without the lockdown itself causing significant excess mortality and gives more credence (as if it’s needed) to the excess mortality that is being seen in other countries being caused purely by COVID. COVID skeptics are full of assertions such as: It’s just the flu, PCR tests are worthless, the lockdown is killing more people than it’s saving, suicides are way up, we w…

you should reread what you've just written and think a bit about who you think the problem is

we were having a conversation pretty tightly scoped to PCR tests that got loosened up (by you) to include lockdowns.

Now you're talking about Q-Anon among other unrelated things. If you want to have meaningful conversation that changes minds by informing people - this isn't the way to do it. It very much seems like you just lump everything into one big ball of political hot topic and leave very little room for nuance from people who disagree with you.

That's very unproductive and I'd suggest this mentality of assuming someone elses position based on political hot topics de jour is exactly why so many people are tribalistic when it comes to choosing what they believe with science.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#424

Post by thebruce87m »

toolz wrote: post #423
thebruce87m wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does do something. It proves you can lockdown without the lockdown itself causing significant excess mortality and gives more credence (as if it’s needed) to the excess mortality that is being seen in other countries being caused purely by COVID. COVID skeptics are full of assertions such as: It’s just the flu, PCR tests are worthless, the lockdown is killing more people than it’s saving, suicides are way up, we w…

you should reread what you've just written and think a bit about who you think the problem is we were having a conversation pretty tightly scoped to PCR tests that got loosened up (by you) to include lockdowns. Now you're talking about Q-Anon among other unrelated things. If you want to have meaningful conversation that changes minds by informing people - this isn't the way to do it. It very much seems like you just…

You’re right about some of the things you are saying, I’ve maybe lumped you unfairly due to first hand experience.

Unfortunately, with my sample size of 2, I have seen the Q-Anon stuff happening real time. Note that I’m not even in America! Both people are engineers. One is an Albanian living in London and I can’t even compute how he’s so wired in to it all. They don’t even know each other but are lockstep with all the COVID stuff they say, now even on to the anti-vaxx angle.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#425

Post by toolz »

thebruce87m wrote: post #424
toolz wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you should reread what you've just written and think a bit about who you think the problem is we were having a conversation pretty tightly scoped to PCR tests that got loosened up (by you) to include lockdowns. Now you're talking about Q-Anon among other unrelated things. If you want to have meaningful conversation that changes minds by informing people - this isn't the way to do it. It very much seems like you just…

You’re right about some of the things you are saying, I’ve maybe lumped you unfairly due to first hand experience. Unfortunately, with my sample size of 2, I have seen the Q-Anon stuff happening real time. Note that I’m not even in America! Both people are engineers. One is an Albanian living in London and I can’t even compute how he’s so wired in to it all. They don’t even know each other but are lockstep with all t…

I am american, but to be honest I don't quite know exactly what Q-Anon even is - I just never cared to read up on it I guess

As far as covid stuff I was basically unemployed for the first three months of the pandemic (only having a small workload) so I got super interested in reading white papers etc. you wouldn't believe the amount of absolutely terrible science that got pushed through the peer review process during covid. In another thread I detail a study someone used as evidence to support their opinion on asymptomatic thread.

The study was a model where they chose 75% asymptomatic spread relative to symptomatic spread for their model - the model unsurprisingly found asymp. spread to be roughly the same as symp. spread IIRC - now where did that 75% come from? I came from three studies they cite....2 of those 3 studies they cite do not have anything resembling the number they came up with. In one of the citations it was so bewilderingly wrong I can only conclude they cited the wrong study or they just made the number up entirely.

Back to the topic of PCR - I've seen zero literature to date that suggests a PCR with a CT>40 is beneficial. Further we have many studies that show false positives are absurdly high for many viruses well before CT40

So for someone to claim it's reasonable to use CT40, I believe the burden is on them to prove it since all literature I've seen suggests otherwise.

here's the garbage study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#426

Post by i386 »

ultralite wrote: post #280
i386 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> media [sic] chose to amplify messages that discredited natural immunity The media is not a recognised scientific body.

The BBC in this case were covering research by Imperial College London, one of the leading contributors to UK COVID-19 research. In Oct 2020, if someone saw https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873 and commented, as you just have, "The media is not a recognised scientific body.", what would you have said?

You are deliberately missing the point. BBC is not a recognized scientific body. It’s an editorial body that editorializes stories and publishes them. It is not a journal.

A lot of things have been said in the media about COVID, most of them wrong and few correct.

There is no conspiracy.

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