History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
51–60 of 174 posts
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
After a certain point, lossy compression doesn't create any perceptible loss in audio quality as long as the rip is done well (with a good encoder, etc.), and you don't know every part of the piece in question. e.g. in classical music, you can tell subtle differences if you've listened the piece live or performed it inside an orchestra. However, that's a pretty edge case. There are always differences if you know wher…
e.g. in classical music, you can tell subtle differences if you've listened the piece live or performed it inside an orchestra Can you explain this a bit more? How is having heard a piece live, which by definition means a unique performance, going to affect whether or not you can pick out whether the recording of (likely) a different performance has been put through lossy compression? Or do you mean a recording of th…
As you know, classical music is layered. It can be scaled for different sized orchestras, which can be akin to tessellation in graphics. You can add more nuanced scores or details if your orchestra has enough members. Of course this has a limit, which is the full score written by the original composer. Similarly, you can remove some layers or simplify the piece if you're smaller orchestra without compromising the piece.
What I tried to say is, if you've listened the piece from or performed with a relatively big orchestra, you'll know that which instrument shall be there, where the small optional triplets are, how the piece should sound or where's that little oboe shall come in, where the little cymbal adds that little crash, or how the harmonics affect each other and create that atmosphere.
So, you'll notice something is missing or off or not as it should be especially in the high end. Classical music has a lot of perceptual tricks under its sleeves to create a specific ambiance and sense of space and most of this lays in the higher end of the spectrum, and they get shaved off first with lossy compression.
Hope this helps, because it's something more felt than can be said with words, how you can't really hear the double bass but feel how it's there. It's that kind of perception.
Edit: Just wanted to add that one musician's or orchestra's specific style of course will be different, but a good orchestra is very faithful to the original score of the piece. Even if an orchestra is playing a little fast or more aggressive, or a simplified version, base instrumentation and atmosphere is the same (as long as the orchestra is not doing Metallica S&M style play the right thing with wrong instruments kind of deliberate arrangement).
Another extreme example would be the band Pink Martini. They have an on-stage audio magic which allows them live with the exact sound of their studio recordings, albeit live. It's surreal to experience.
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#53On one hand I like spare-no-expense halo products like this. They are fascinating, at least visually. On the other hand this is why the hi-fi hobby is dying. With products like this, we promote the idea that high fidelity audio requires all sorts of exotic equipment that few can afford. The happy reality is that excellent audio reproduction can be achieved without spending much money; certainly less than a modern gam…
Studio monitors and HiFi equipment seem like different categories and use cases to me. HiFi speakers should fill the room. To get a good sound from studio monitors you need to be positioned well. Just moving a little bit can make a big difference in the sound.
I've since replaced the Adams with a set of Monitor Audio Bronze 2s, because I wanted something with a bit more living room friendly looks. Finding an AVR with outputs for active speakers is surprisingly difficult, so I had to go back to passive speakers, and I compensated a bit by getting the largest practical model I could fit.
Studio monitors are as varied as any other speaker design. There are ones with really small sweet spots and others with extremely huge ones, the JBL LSR series is a great example of the latter, their horn loaded tweeters have really impressive horizontal dispersion.
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a show of engineering prowess. It's like Nikon's f0.95/50mm lens. Almost perfect, but impractical for most. Moreover, these kind of show pieces allow technology creep to lower levels, allowing the know-how to practically improve other products down the road. I think it's necessary to have products like these.
A similar product could be produced reasonably cost effectively with injection molded plastics and doing the unit adapted crossover in digital domain. I think it has not been done because the story of it being painstakingly manually crafter, the tower of monoblock amplifiers needed and even the high price itself are the allure of this kind of product. Just like the selling point of a high end wristwatch is not about…
Also, to be able to create the same crossovers in the digital domain, you'd have to go pretty high end again, because, passing through a single DAC at the end of the chain is not same as a DAC -> ADC -> Crossover -> DAC chain at the end of the day.
All in all, you'll come pretty close but you won't be able to create the exact same device at the end. Also, some stuff's (like good drivers built in small numbers) price doesn't come down that easily.
Yes, dedication and tuning of a special room with 8x 500W mono amplifiers requires a hefty sum and these speakers are may not be expensive when all the price is factored in, but throwing in modern plastics and a couple of DSPs cannot replicate all that, all the time.
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an audiophile (without the madness), I can understand you. On the other hand, with a pair of good speakers and a nice amplifier with bass, mid & treble knobs, you can almost dial the tone which's best for a genre. A 2x10 band eq is better, but I prefer to listen pure-flat instead. In my setup, only vinyl needs loudness + tone circuits, the rest is happy with pure flat. Of course music and sound is a subjective tas…
but 90% of the road can be traveled with just basic, but good components IMHO. Amen. No expert here but I've been in the hobby for a while and have demo'd some high end stuff at audio shows. I strongly believe a really good "90% of the way there" system can be put together for well under $500 retail, or even less if going DIY or used.
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#56I half believe it was the presentation - dramatic, but also extremely clever choice of SACD source content with some theatre thrown in for good measure. However, that 12 minutes in a room in conference hall in London with the Nautilus speakers was something I will never forget for a "this is what money buys you" experience. Warm, huge dynamic range, concert hall experience - comfy chair and dim lights helped as well :)
At Tag, we built the "tag mclaren speakers f1" that had a lot of elements I feel borrowed from the B&W industrial design (but made F1 grade) - I used these daily for several years, but was never able to convince myself they were as good as that one time experience.
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
A good way to determine the point of transparency of lossy encoding for yourself, is to ABX test on your own equipment, with files you've converted yourself. A good way to do this is with Foobar2000's ABX plugin, which lets you compare back and forth and on whole tracks or short snippets if you want. In my experience, headphones always yield the best results, and surprisingly it doesn't matter if I use the stock earb…
> I keep my music library in FLAC, both because I know it's CD quality and because it's an archive. I want to be able to convert the tracks to any new codec that may come along, if I need to. I understand the sentiment. But the reality is, if the re-encoding is not likely going to happen within the next 10 years, your hearing will probably have deteriorated so much that you probably won't hear the difference anymore…
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can DIY high-end speakers, saving thousands. Sounds weird, but its true. Here is one example that is popular, there are others: http://www.donhighend.de/?page_id=3212
This is true. I'm going to make a vast oversimplification here, but a rule of thumb is that a lot of the well-regarded DIY kits on the market compare well with retail speakers that cost 2-3X as much. Some examples: https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/speaker-sub... https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-audio-speaker-kits/home-a... https://meniscusaudio.com/product-category/speaker-kits/ etc.
Those speakers being the old-school big boxes with 12-15" woofers, sometimes multiple and usually 3-way designs, sometimes 4-way. Large, heavy, imposing and punchy, big speakers for big music. I know modern speaker drivers have come a long way, but you just can't get that from 6" or 8" drivers in the same way.
DIY PA speaker designs do provide some of this, but I'll have to tweak the aesthetics more in a "living room-friendly" direction, because nobody seems to want big beefy speakers anymore.
Re: History of the Nautilus loudspeaker
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bass distortion is the only big factor. Everybody knows it doesn't matter, but it's actually where distortion is the easiest to hear. Chinese manufacturers don't know, and do care, so even cheap USB speakers blow out of water the majority of even much more expensive products.
Do you have an example of some of these cheap USB speakers please?
They are a bit underpowered, rumble with Bluetooth, and you need to turn the bass and highs quite a bit down to make them sound flat, but I bet that something like 100x times more expensive studio speakers will be the cheapest setup that matches them in the clarity.