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Pesticides are killing the world's soils

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#21

Post by Mengkudulangsat »

bvrlt wrote: post #18
refurb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dengue fever is a serious disease and it’s not rare in Singapore, there were 40,000+ cases in 2020 which is pretty high for a population of 5M. If they stopped their mosquito control efforts it would be disastrous for human health.

Wouldn't a healthier ecosystem better handle mosquitoes, though? Predators of mosquitoes are bats, birds, fishes, frogs…

A healthy ecosystem in Singapore will be chock-full of mosquitoes and no humans.

The island started out as a swamp.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#22

Post by AlexandrB »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #13

My observation is that smaller farmers, especially cottage farming, have a really good grasp on soil health and actively cultivate soil via grazing. Grazing is one of the best things we can do to build soil. Animals and the soil grew up and evolved together. It’s a shame the world is turning so strongly against meat, regardless of how it’s raised.

From Wikipedia: "Grazing systems supply about 9 percent of the world's production of beef ..."[1]

I don't think there's going to be a 91% reduction in beef intake in my lifetime. Rest easy, grazing is safe.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#23

Post by hosh »

timeinput wrote: post #12

Does anyone have sources for suggestions about what we should do? I read these articles, and worry, and wonder what can I do. It's not clear to me that buying organic mono-cropped bananas at the mega mart is in anyway better or worse than buying non-organic mono-cropped bananas. I'd really like to just build up some more understanding on what I can do in my daily life to make things not worse.

There's a ton individuals can do.

The societal solutions to this has been around from decades, if not centuries. Look up the documentary called Kiss the Earth for a good intro that covers this and more.

As far as individuals goes, you can look for food sourced locally using regenerative agriculture -- agroforestry, permaculture, etc. The farm is usually operated as a diverse ecosystem that is designed to grow the soil as part of an integrated effort. They usually have livestock raised with the crops. None of this stuff is really new and doesn't require bleeding edge technology. We've had people practicing these things for a very long time.

There are also other things you can do to take more direct action as an individual: grow your own food, participate in communities that are planting and growing a food forest in parks, participate in composting, or better yet, compost on-site for your garden.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#24

Post by dylan604 »

Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #21
bvrlt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a healthier ecosystem better handle mosquitoes, though? Predators of mosquitoes are bats, birds, fishes, frogs…

A healthy ecosystem in Singapore will be chock-full of mosquitoes and no humans. The island started out as a swamp.

Sometimes I think mother nature just looks at people shaking her head quoting the line from Last Crusade, "you chose poorly" on selecting where to live.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#26

Post by mixologic »

thatcat wrote: post #20
refurb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dengue fever is a serious disease and it’s not rare in Singapore, there were 40,000+ cases in 2020 which is pretty high for a population of 5M. If they stopped their mosquito control efforts it would be disastrous for human health.

There are alternatives, like the release of genetically engineered male mosquitos.

That still remains to be seen, right? Wasn't the first release of gmo mosquitos only recently in Florida?

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#27

Post by dylan604 »

fy20 wrote: post #5
unchocked wrote: post #3

I'm dismayed at how little we seem to know about pesticides, neonicotinoids for example but probably a host of other types. It certainly stands to reason that industrial application of poisons is going to kill a lot of species and destabilize ecosystems. The decline of insect populations over several decades - which to me is symbolized by the near-extinction of the monarch butterfly, is probably more destabilizing to…

If anything I'd say the problem is we don't understand enough about how soil and its corresponding ecosystem works, the article even says that: > Currently, regulators completely ignore pesticides’ harm to earthworms, springtails, beetles and thousands of other subterranean species. Pesticides and herbicides are designed to kill certain things, with the assumption that "this is bad because it's not what I want to gro…

> before they damage the soil too much.

That really depends on the definition of 'too much'. Does too much mean arid dry wasteland that no longer supports life at all? Does it mean the native flora&fauna no longer grow and everything that does grow must be artificially supported mean too much? Does using it all mean too much (I lean this way personally).

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#28

Post by rmason »

I've watched the entire cycle in the past thirty years as a former agronomist. We were able to genetically modify plants so they generated natural pesticides as a defense against insects. This allowed us to stop spraying thousands of tons of less insecticides.

But the very people complaining about spraying chemicals rejected these new enhanced plants saying they weren't 'natural'. We have been breeding plants to do things the past 170 years ever since Gregor Mendel and his pea breeding. The only difference now is that we have better tools. You cannot win everyone over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#29

Post by randomdata »

AlexandrB wrote: post #22
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #13

My observation is that smaller farmers, especially cottage farming, have a really good grasp on soil health and actively cultivate soil via grazing. Grazing is one of the best things we can do to build soil. Animals and the soil grew up and evolved together. It’s a shame the world is turning so strongly against meat, regardless of how it’s raised.

From Wikipedia: "Grazing systems supply about 9 percent of the world's production of beef ..."[1] I don't think there's going to be a 91% reduction in beef intake in my lifetime. Rest easy, grazing is safe. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding

While I am sure there is an augment to be made that grazing is best, perennial grasses harvested for animal consumption with the manure applied back onto said land, with rotation only after several years, is a close second. Having cover and cereal crops in an animal-free rotation can help, but is not nearly the same.

You may be missing the sentiment of the comment by being overly concerned about the details.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#30

Post by anigbrowl »

timeinput wrote: post #12

Does anyone have sources for suggestions about what we should do? I read these articles, and worry, and wonder what can I do. It's not clear to me that buying organic mono-cropped bananas at the mega mart is in anyway better or worse than buying non-organic mono-cropped bananas. I'd really like to just build up some more understanding on what I can do in my daily life to make things not worse.

  Buy 1 share in a pesticide manufacturer
  Go to shareholder meetings
  Introduce aggressive candidates (possibly yourself) for board positions
  Make a fuss
  Get thrown out
  Have planned for this so you had an accomplice to film it and organized your press conference with local news in advance
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