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Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#371

Post by [deleted] »

ggreer wrote: post #274
snypher wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it this exit (carpool lane over to 85)? 37.4110753, -122.0761614

If anyone is wondering why people are discussing this particular exit so much, look at this image: https://goo.gl/maps/Q2Qm5RR3myMkdsFE8 See that lane on the right that has solid white lines on each side of it? Now pan around: https://goo.gl/maps/TunvNLGvX9sUTbXp9 It actually leads directly to a barrier. If instead of putting smooth pavement before that barrier, Caltrans had placed grass or dirt or rumble strips or p…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#372

Post by dkonofalski »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #343
gauravphoenix wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I was going straight and had no intention of turning at all anywhere. Just because a lane is getting added doesn't mean I want to move to that lane.

I think what he's asking is, a new left-turn lane would have been to your left. So, in order to steer into oncoming traffic it would have had to change lanes at least twice, first into the new left lane, and then left again into traffic. There's something missing from your description.

Yes, exactly. This is where my confusion stems from. It doesn't make sense unless the description is clarified.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#373

Post by what_ever »

p1esk wrote: post #320
what_ever wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've already seen several instances of Waymo's approach not working. Define - 1. Several. 2. Not working. Disc: Googler but I don't know if that's necessary since I don't work at Waymo.

Here's one: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/14/22436584/waymo-driverless...

Doesn't seem several or approach not working to me. The YouTuber who recorded that video has taken over 50 rides. One of them didn't go as intended (didn't cause an accident) but I won't call that as Waymo's approach not working.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#374

Post by p1esk »

what_ever wrote: post #373
p1esk wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/14/22436584/waymo-driverless...

Doesn't seem several or approach not working to me. The YouTuber who recorded that video has taken over 50 rides. One of them didn't go as intended (didn't cause an accident) but I won't call that as Waymo's approach not working.

These rides are in ideal conditions: perfect visibility, excellent roads, a city designed for cars, and well-behaved drivers. Waymo has worked on self-driving for 12 years now, and threw smartest people in the world and billions of dollars at the problem. Yet they still having problems with simple situations like going around orange cones on the road.

Self-driving will arrive eventually, but don't hold your breath.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#375

Post by jfrunyon »

Syonyk wrote: post #260
jfrunyon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already seen several instances of Waymo's approach not working. I agree that ultimately they need a significant amount of local training data. But I believe they would be better off having a human drive a car around to map things out, run their 'AI' on the results, and then manually review/correct lower confidence results. Or, better yet, make a database and have cities provide feeds of changes/permits/closures…

> Or, better yet, make a database and have cities provide feeds of changes/permits/closures. "Sorry, I know you crashed, your car's on fire, and you're bleeding out. But I need to get this road closure form submitted before I can help, or a self driving car might ignore the stationary accident and make things worse. Ugh, 5G's not working today... hold on..." The cars must be able to handle random, unexpected events h…

> If a self driving car can't handle this sort of thing (or an accident and coming on a flagger) autonomously, it has no business being allowed on the road.

> And if it can - then there's no need to have a centralized database of weird things, because it can deal with the range of events autonomously.

'Conditions on top of the road' (vehicles, debris, etc.) and 'conditions of the road itself' are not the same thing and I'm not sure why you think that they are.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#376

Post by [deleted] »

Syonyk wrote: post #363
atatatat wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If both are 98%, and you combine them...

On an annual basis, you "self drive" a staggeringly large number of cars into accident scenes, road construction, traffic jams, police, and just about everything else that could possibly be on the road. Start talking about 99.998% or so, OK, now it's worth sitting down with the math. But 98% accuracy at avoiding construction/existing crashes/etc is horrible.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#377

Post by jfrunyon »

what_ever wrote: post #373
p1esk wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/14/22436584/waymo-driverless...

Doesn't seem several or approach not working to me. The YouTuber who recorded that video has taken over 50 rides. One of them didn't go as intended (didn't cause an accident) but I won't call that as Waymo's approach not working.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/10/30/waymos-driverless-cars-we...

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#378

Post by jfrunyon »

imoverclocked wrote: post #254
jfrunyon wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't actually need full general AI, but it does need to know and understand all of the roads in its "service area". IMHO the real solution will be building a database of roads (and lanes, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, etc). BTW, the average driver gets in a crash every 18 years. The best humans aren't perfect either, and a self-driving car really only needs to be better than the worst humans to be a…

> a self-driving car really only needs to be better than the worst humans to be an improvement I think this is false because varying abilities of people will use the autopilot, not just the worst. The autopilot needs to be better than average for an overall improvement. I think it needs to be much better than average to be compelling enough for most people to adopt it. Most people consider themselves to be good drive…

> I think this is false because varying abilities of people will use the autopilot, not just the worst.

That depends entirely on how effective it is and what incentives/disincentives there are (i.e. subsidies, taxes, insurance), which will itself depend on how effective it is.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#379

Post by jfrunyon »

ghoward wrote: post #269
jfrunyon wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't actually need full general AI, but it does need to know and understand all of the roads in its "service area". IMHO the real solution will be building a database of roads (and lanes, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, etc). BTW, the average driver gets in a crash every 18 years. The best humans aren't perfect either, and a self-driving car really only needs to be better than the worst humans to be a…

But what happens when the road is suddenly closed for an accident? Or new construction appears? What will database-based self-driving cars do then?

They would handle it the exact same way they handle any obstacle in front of them. Which is a lot easier than figuring out the speed limit, and the lane demarcations, and which lanes go where, and oh the stripes are covered by snow, and oh the stripes are worn away, and ...

No one ever said that they could get all of their info from a database. But there is a significant amount of info which they could get from a database, which they might not be able to get at all otherwise.

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