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Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

floptimal.com

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Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#21

Post by tbavaro »

patio11 wrote: post #8

This is a lot easier to use than sites with similar content presented in images. Not seeing a color legend on mobile but I can reason it out; might be a helpful addition for tournament players who are newer to these concepts. (Explanation for peanut gallery: if you are playing tournament Texas hold’em poker and have relatively few chips, the game becomes simpler that at other stages of the tournament: you either wage…

Hey, thanks for taking a look! We were also unhappy with the status quo even though the idea of game-theory-optimal poker sims has been around for a while. Glad you like it too :)

Mobile isn't something we've focused on too much, so the UI's a bit small, but you should see the legend below the action bar on the left. Let me know if it's somehow not showing up at all for you though.

Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#22

Post by hgibbs »

episteme wrote: post #11

What opponent range does this assume? Does that not effect the playable hands?

Implicit in a range like this one is that you are facing 'maximally exploitative opponents'. Since the game is zero-sum, over enough games the expected value of such a strategy is 0. However, since that expected value is against a maximally exploitative opponent any deviations of the opponent's strategy lead to an increase in your expected value. This is the game theory approach (GTO).

On the other hand, you can try to tailor your strategy to be maximally exploitative of the other players at the table, but doing this can be hard since often it can take a large number of hands to gauge what kind of player somebody is. On the other hand, GTO strategies are naive in the sense that you don't need to know anything about your opponents to guarantee that you Breakeven.

Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#23

Post by waprin »

ngokevin wrote: post #18
legitster wrote: post #5

This looks really cool, but even as someone who has dabbled a bit in poker I have no idea what I am looking at. Presumably, this is for people who are already advanced to get a little bit better? Otherwise, if you want to level up my poker game I would need a few lower rungs on the ladder.

This is sort of a modernized web-based PokerStove. It's useful when you are at the stage where you are deep analyzing past hands or perhaps deciding whether preflop shoves in tournaments were good. But I think even as someone who has used PokerStove in the past, and has programmed some range evaluators, the UI is pretty intimidating for me.

It’s closer to a web version of pio solver.

Equity and range evaluators got a lot less useful because people figured how to make software that solves the full (simplified) game tree. This is a superior approach to anything other than all-in spots (which have game tree of one nodes.)

Most serious players these days primarily use software like pio and monker because the competition has gotten tougher and old equity calculators are like using a graphing calculator vs a

Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#24

Post by rohitrajan »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #7

Using this on the same computer with casino software will net you a ban and probably cost you any winnings.

This is a preflop decision tree, not disimilar to having a number of static pdfs open next to your table windows (which is very common). Online poker sites mainly ban usage of postflop intelligence / pre-saved solves

Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#25

Post by theshirin »

TameAntelope wrote: post #15

I think a Poker app that doesn't start with a poker table as the primary driver of the UX is going to have a hard time getting traction with people who aren't already experts, and at that point you might as well just start off charging money. Launching anything is extremely hard, congratulations! I hope this goes well for you, I do like the layout of information, even though (as others have already commented) I don't…

Thanks for this feedback! We initially thought that experts would be our primary/target audience, but given the reception we're getting from novices, there's clearly value in providing better onboarding for them so that the initial view isn't so overwhelming (although luckily we've seen that even newbies can pick up the charts quickly with a little bit of explanation).

Just to share a little background: our initial designs were of a round poker table but ultimately ditched it for a couple key reasons. We ran into usability issues (eg, the re-raising scenarios were difficult to display clearly, and it took too long for users to read/absorb the summary of action), and the action input wasn't as streamlined (namely, it required far more mouse and eye movement darting around the circle).

It took many iterations to land on what we currently have — the vertical list from early position to late position that eliminates positions in the re-raise rounds — and it proved to be the most efficient for inputting, absorbing, and clearing table action. Ultimately we made this tradeoff to value power usage over first time usage, but we hope to continue improving it and making it easier for first time users as well.

Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#27

Post by gnicholas »

Thank you for offering a cookie notice whose one-click options are 'only required cookies' and 'all cookies'.

Too many websites offer 'all cookies' and 'dig into this menu to turn off the cookies you don't want'. Obviously the latter is a huge pain, and the goal is to get people to just accept all cookies.

Re: Show HN: Floptimal – Preflop ranges reimagined

#29

Post by TameAntelope »

theshirin wrote: post #25
TameAntelope wrote: post #15

I think a Poker app that doesn't start with a poker table as the primary driver of the UX is going to have a hard time getting traction with people who aren't already experts, and at that point you might as well just start off charging money. Launching anything is extremely hard, congratulations! I hope this goes well for you, I do like the layout of information, even though (as others have already commented) I don't…

Thanks for this feedback! We initially thought that experts would be our primary/target audience, but given the reception we're getting from novices, there's clearly value in providing better onboarding for them so that the initial view isn't so overwhelming (although luckily we've seen that even newbies can pick up the charts quickly with a little bit of explanation). Just to share a little background: our initial d…

Oh, it's you and a team? Awesome, sounds like a fun project to work on. If you've examined it and saw it not working well, that's totally fair. I thought you were doing this solo, but given the level of polish I probably should have known better. :)

Good luck!

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