Earlier quoted context omitted.
He seems to assume that because he (what?) can think, he exists. Either he has an implicit assumption about what it means to exist (which he never describes, and which is therefore useless to me), or his definition of exist is "can think", in which case the famous proof would be trivial and useless (it would boil down to "I exist therefore I exist"). I already see many people here don't understand what I mean, but th…
Such arrogance from someone who clearly has no understanding of what he critiques. I hate to add to the dogpile, but seriously take a step back and realize that maybe there's something you're missing rather than everyone else being fooled. Your issue here seems to be "this doesn't answer the question I want therefore this is useless". This is just a lack of imagination on your part. Sure, he doesn't delve into the na…
A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
91–100 of 107 posts
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you underrate this line of thought. The existence of neurons is, of course, not justified in the philosophical sense - but its hard to argue that anything is justified in the philosophical sense. Reason might be a source of justification, but for that to be so you first have to assume that reason is justified. Senses might be a source of justification, but first you have to assume that knowledge derived from…
It's not like philosophy is interested in some special notion of 'justified' - philosphy tends to be interested in our ordinary notion of justification. We normally think that the belief that neurons exist is justified. Philosophy will ask what that amounts to. It may turn out that the belief is unjustified - but most philosophers will reject this. They will argue over different accounts of what that justification co…
EDIT: Maybe I'm going overboard here in attributing to philosophy in general what is only true of epistemology, my favorite branch of it. In that case, I should have been referring to "epidemiological justification".
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have an instinctive emotional desire to keep what I possess. You have an instinctive emotional desire to feel compassion for someone who is suffering. Because of your emotions, you want to raise taxes on my property to support the poor. Because of my emotions, I want my taxes to stay the same, if not lower. How can science decide between us?
Social game theory is complex but not impossible to understand. If it were impossible, countries not ruled by the pope any more would be all like Somalia.
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well name a philosophy book that is worth reading. Maths books don't claim to be anything but self-indulgent.
Given your comments, I'm would recommend W.V. Quine (staunchly realist, writes wonderfully clearly, very rigorous, a logician at heart). A good collection of basic essays is Quintessence , and a good first essay might be 'On What There Is'[1][2]. (Arguably his most important book-length work is Word and Object , but I wouldn't recommend starting there.) Here's the first paragraph (complete) to give you a sense of how…
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like philosophy is interested in some special notion of 'justified' - philosphy tends to be interested in our ordinary notion of justification. We normally think that the belief that neurons exist is justified. Philosophy will ask what that amounts to. It may turn out that the belief is unjustified - but most philosophers will reject this. They will argue over different accounts of what that justification co…
Modern philosophy has indeed moved beyond this notion of justification, but for a long time it was the central project of Western philosophy. What were the rationalists, empiricists, Kantians, and positivists arguing about other than the justification of knowledge (in this sense). EDIT: Maybe I'm going overboard here in attributing to philosophy in general what is only true of epistemology, my favorite branch of it.…
There has been a strand of 20 cent philosophy that has regarded justification as that which together with truth and belief yields knowledge - if you do that, you're individuating justification in terms of a particular epistemic role, and that so it's a theoretical notion. That might be what you're getting at.
But most philosophers nowadays use the notion of 'warrant' for that. So for them, the notion of justification doesn't have that particular theoretical role.
Generally, why be interested in a theoretical notion? The fundamental questions in Epistemology are questions like:
* What is knowledge? * What is justification? * Which beliefs are justified? * What do we know, and how do we know it? etc etc
Those are the starting points, and they are phrased in English. They use ordinary notions. Given that, no answer to them which first redefines the terms to yield distinct questions is going to suffice as an adequate answer.
Philosophers use a lot of technical jargon, and are interested in technical questions. But generally, those questions have pretty clear connections to our ordinary ways of thinking about the world.
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given your comments, I'm would recommend W.V. Quine (staunchly realist, writes wonderfully clearly, very rigorous, a logician at heart). A good collection of basic essays is Quintessence , and a good first essay might be 'On What There Is'[1][2]. (Arguably his most important book-length work is Word and Object , but I wouldn't recommend starting there.) Here's the first paragraph (complete) to give you a sense of how…
Gotta side with Tichy on this one. That sounds exactly like self-indulgent nonsense. Talk around the question, sound cute, but don't answer anything or even inform how you plan to proceed.
As for the article, try the whole thing before you judge it (it's not very long at all). Quine is not being frivolous, and he takes pains to explain exactly what he means as the piece goes on.
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
As soon as philosophy gets to even a fraction of the use mathematics has, then maybe it will be worth looking to for answers.
Philosophy doesn't really give answers - it only states interesting questions, and if we can answer some of them - a new science is born.
I was about to tack on "questions on the other hand..." to my comment but was already in bed when I thought of it.
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whenever I pick up a maths book, I read all these symbols that have no explanation whatsoever - it's obviously self-indulgent wanking. I admit I don't actually read the book, though, I just open it. But I can tell the symbols aren't english, or any other language I learned before my mind closed, so I can tell it's dross.
Well name a philosophy book that is worth reading. Maths books don't claim to be anything but self-indulgent.
Asking what philosophy book to read is sort of like asking which math book to read.
The answer really depends on what you already know. You're probably not going to recommend that someone completely unfamiliar with math read a calculus textbook, much less an advanced math monogram.
Likewise, it's probably not a good idea to recommend that someone unfamiliar with philosophy read Heidegger. You're probably going to get some very basic recommendations.
Even then, you probably won't get much out of reading them without taking a class on the subject in which someone with vastly more experience and understanding than you can guide you and your peers to gain a greater appreciation of what you read, and to stimulate critical thought and discussion about the books you are reading. That's really the ideal setting for getting introduced to philosophy: as part of a class led by a talented teacher, and with some intelligent peers open to talking about the issues.
That said, you should not allow yourself to be misled in to thinking the toe that you dip in to the ocean of philosophy is going to be in any way representative, much less the "best" that philosophy has to offer.
Even were you to read a "great" book when you just start out, you're probably not going to understand much of it or get much out of it on your first go. Even professional philosophers go back again and again to classics, as they get more out of them each time, with the benefit of greater understanding, and being able to apply the insight and methods they've gained in the meantime to the books they've already read.
What I'm trying to say is that reading philosophy in a way that does justice to the topic is a lifetime endeavor. A one-time bite at any philosophy book just isn't going to give you even an inkling of an idea of what it's about.
Still, for an introduction to Western philosophy, you probably won't be able to do better than starting with the Socratic Dialogues. They are the source and the foundation of much of Western philosophy that's come afterwards, and you really can't properly understand most of the rest without reading this source.
I would strongly encourage you to read them as part of an Ancient Philosophy class at a university, for the reasons mentioned a few paragraphs earlier. Unfortunately, the philosophy departments of universities in the English speaking world tend to be dominated by the Analytic school of philosophy. So what you'll get from class will probably be biased in that direction. Just keep in mind that there are other ways of approaching and understanding the issues you read about than the ones you are exposed to in class.
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure this is what the parent meant, but in America at least, the antislavery movement was part of a broad social reform movement which was strongly tied to the popular Christianity of the day. For example, see the connections between Charles Finney (a prominent theologian) and Oberlin College (one of the first integrated universities). Also, look up the full lyrics to the Battle Hymn of the Republic- it sound…
Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue, all claiming doctrinal support for their positions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Chri... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Oppo...
I wonder if that's why I wrote: "Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery"
The existence of religious slavery supporters does not refute the claim was that religious people ended slavery.
As I put it the first time: "[the religious supporters of slavery] lost to [religious opponents]."
Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion. Religion ended slavery. (Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery - they lost to the ones that didn't.) What has philosophy done in that domain. (Is it poor form to point out that philosophy pretty much went Nazi during the 30s.) Yes, philosophers produced logic et al.
Religion ended slavery? Please explain (I'm genuinely curious). Philosophy went nazi? No, nazism went philosophy, and poorly too. They raped Nietzsche's philosophy until it fit their needs, with the help of his decadent Missgeburt of a sister. Heidegger is perhaps a much more problematic case, but also not a matter of black-and-white. Philosophers _produced_ logic? Wittgenstein is lolling at you in his grave right no…
Yes, the Nazis looked for "intellectual" support, but you're ignoring that they got it. If you want to argue causality....
> They raped Nietzsche's philosophy until it fit their needs, with the help of his decadent Missgeburt of a sister.
Ah yes, the "Nazis were unpopular in Germany" defense.....
>Heidegger is perhaps a much more problematic case, but also not a matter of black-and-white.
Heidegger is "problematic" only if you choose to ignore his actual positions at the time in favor of post WWII revisionism. (In other news, early 1900s progressives were eugenicists and segregationists.)
We can argue about whether that alone make Nazism popular with philosophers of that era or they came to that support on their own, but to deny that there was widespread agreement is simply absurd.
To be fair, Nazism was very popular across all social classes in the 30s, so the intellectual support wasn't way outside the mainstream. My point is that isn't an example where the intellectual class got it right. Do you want to blame that on the influence of the rest of society? (They didn't at the time, but surely we shouldn't believe what philosophers say about their reasons.)