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Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#151

Post by nine_k »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #148
thehappypm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. A dam focuses externalities on the same communities that benefit from the dam (jobs and revenue). Fossil fuels benefit the producers but everyone suffers the externalities.

> Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. Hard disagree. Dams simply need to be categorized as dirty energy. They are probably less dirty than coal or natural gas energy. However dams are dirty and they should be treated as such. Categorizing an energy source as dirty does not mean we don't use it. It doesn't even mean we don't build more of it. We don't have 100% clean energy today. I hope that someday we do. And…

This makes them a rather unique class of dirty renewables.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#152

Post by indymike »

katbyte wrote: post #76
indymike wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes Chinese efforts nascent but American efforts (where species also continue to go extinct) developed? Perhaps this isn't about nations, but about 1) how sad it is for such a unique species to be extinct, 2) a cautionary tale. Also, where I live (Indiana, USA) we have a native paddlefish species that was nearly fished to extinction by a ring of criminals that were killing them for their caviar. I wonder if…

> Also, where I live (Indiana, USA) we have a native paddlefish species that was nearly fished to extinction how are they doing now? recovering?

This just happened (well, from 2019 to about a week ago the arrests were made).

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#153

Post by beauzero »

morsch wrote: post #80

Its cousin, the American paddlefish, is still around, though it's vulnerable. Among other similar reasons (overfishing, pollution), dams are related to its decline: "Series of dams on rivers such as those constructed on the Missouri River have impounded large populations of American paddlefish, and blocked their upstream migration to spawning shoals.[29]" But it's not too late... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America…

Fishing is highly...and I do mean highly regulated in Montana (spawning grounds). http://fieldguide.mt.gov/speciesDetail.aspx?elcode=AFCAB0101... There are wildlife biologists that harvest the eggs and process the meat for you. You must apply for tags and the season can be shutdown if a limit is reached before the end of the season. I fished it once and was glad I didn't catch anything. My heart wasn't in it after I saw the first one caught. They reminded me too much of dolphins and they have to be snagged. They do not take bait so the fish...imo is not brought in as quickly and humanely as I was comfortable with. We hunted and fished because without it quality protein was scarce during my childhood. It was a creature I just chose to appreciate and eat more mac and cheese.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#154

Post by dennis_moore »

HMH wrote: post #102

Interestingly there is a term for the last known member of a species: Endling [1]. Scrolling through that Wikipedia article always gives me an eerie feeling. It looks like the Chinese paddlefish is not listed yet though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endling

It seems like a tremendously difficult task to declare that a particular individual is an endling. Do you know how a zoologist would infer such a thing?

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#155

Post by whisk »

yellow_lead wrote: post #107
xiaolingxiao wrote: post #41

I recall visiting the Yangtze river by boat tour around 1997. This was before the dam was built and the place was beautiful. Imagine the grand canyon but it was covered with lush vegetation. We visited a center where there were models of the three gorges dam would soon to be built. On the tour they said we would be the last tourists to see the Yangtze as it stands, after the dam, many landmarks/settlements would be f…

Peter Hessler writes about his experience in Sichuan during the time the three gorges dam was being built [1]. Many people have had to sacrifice a lot for these dams. However, IIRC many receive some form of compensation from the government (adequate or not). [1] https://www.amazon.com/River-Town-Years-Yangtze-P-S/dp/00608...

The dam you and he mentioned is Three Gorges Dam built from 1994 to 2003.

And the dam in this article, which may related with the extinction of the Chinese paddlefish, is Gezhouba Dam. It was built from 1970 to 1988.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#156

Post by fouc »

plank_time wrote: post #58
faitswulff wrote: post #9

Hopefully they have a DNA sample somewhere. What a shame.

One DNA sample isn’t enough. You need dozens or more to repopulate a species. If you just had one or two, you would have to rely on inbreeding to repopulate which would create too many bad genetic problems from bad genes.

All that really means is that the offspring with bad genes might die sooner, but if population growth keeps up then eventually there'll be enough variety.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#157

Post by mattmaroon »

boringg wrote: post #118
w7 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van PRC does not deny they exist, nor denies that organs are harvested after. There are pictures of them online, and notable cases where it was the officially recorded method of execution.

Well that was a wikipedia link that felt ill to read. Assuming accuracy my apologies for the doubt.

No problem, it does sound like fiction.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#159

Post by webmaven »

mattmaroon wrote: post #89
boringg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very aware of who runs China. Which is why I asked the question - are there any organizations within China that have any real power. My suspicion is that the CCP has no real effort or interest and the lack of people able to answer with a: Yes the CCP is seriously trying to protect the environment/ecosystem/species through the following things likely speaks to the lack of interest/initiative.

There are no organizations in China that oppose the government openly. At least not for long. The Chinese government has roving vans that execute dissidents and harvest their organs right outside their house. The CCP cares about the environment insofar as it benefits China. They probably do not care about a fish going extinct the way we do.

> There are no organizations in China that oppose the government openly.

True insofar as that goes, but the government isn't monolithic. At least, not entirely. Ministries do jockey for power among themselves, and the Ministry for Ecology and Environment has gained/consolidated responsibility and authority under Xi (somewhat similar to the formation of DHS in the US).

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#160

Post by waheoo »

yellow_lead wrote: post #107
xiaolingxiao wrote: post #41

I recall visiting the Yangtze river by boat tour around 1997. This was before the dam was built and the place was beautiful. Imagine the grand canyon but it was covered with lush vegetation. We visited a center where there were models of the three gorges dam would soon to be built. On the tour they said we would be the last tourists to see the Yangtze as it stands, after the dam, many landmarks/settlements would be f…

Peter Hessler writes about his experience in Sichuan during the time the three gorges dam was being built [1]. Many people have had to sacrifice a lot for these dams. However, IIRC many receive some form of compensation from the government (adequate or not). [1] https://www.amazon.com/River-Town-Years-Yangtze-P-S/dp/00608...

There is no amount of money that can compensate the archeological loss from the intentional flooding of these areas.

Multiple cradle of civilization level sites were flooded with not enough funding or effort given to excavating these sites thoroughly before flooding.

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