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Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

nationalgeographic.com

141–150 of 212 posts

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#141

The unbridled enthusiasm of man again pushes us deeper into this 6th mass extinction event, the Holocene extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction . I still remember the Baiji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji or the finless porpoise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow-ridged_finless_porpoise . Can we realistically ever taper down and live more simple minimalistic lives that strike a better bala…

This ain’t a mass extinction yet

What definition are you using for "mass extinction"?

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#142

I got downvoted in another thread for extolling the ecological consequences of dams. Dams should not be considered “clean” energy. They’re environmental disasters. Both upstream and downstream.

Dams are incredibly damaging. By contrast, every time we have a nuclear disaster, the no-go zone becomes a wildlife paradise.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#143

I got downvoted in another thread for extolling the ecological consequences of dams. Dams should not be considered “clean” energy. They’re environmental disasters. Both upstream and downstream.

Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. A dam focuses externalities on the same communities that benefit from the dam (jobs and revenue). Fossil fuels benefit the producers but everyone suffers the externalities.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#144
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know China is not a democracy right? There’s only one organization in China with any real power and they’re the ones building the dams. The environment collapsing so that it can’t support people is a pretty drastic leap from running certain fish into extinction.

I am very aware of who runs China. Which is why I asked the question - are there any organizations within China that have any real power. My suspicion is that the CCP has no real effort or interest and the lack of people able to answer with a: Yes the CCP is seriously trying to protect the environment/ecosystem/species through the following things likely speaks to the lack of interest/initiative.

The CPC does in fact take ecology seriously. You can read about it in this translation of their latest five year plan proposal: https://cset.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/t0237_5th_Ple...

If you want a concrete example showing that this isn’t just propaganda, you can look into China’s reforestation effort, through which 66 billion trees have been planted since 1978 (enabling many at-risk species to bounce back).

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#145

The unbridled enthusiasm of man again pushes us deeper into this 6th mass extinction event, the Holocene extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction . I still remember the Baiji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji or the finless porpoise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow-ridged_finless_porpoise . Can we realistically ever taper down and live more simple minimalistic lives that strike a better bala…

Damn, from worshipped to wiped out in a human lifetime. That's a shame.

As far as why they're not listed as extinct yet, it's really hard to definitively say there are none left. It's a big river and while surveys haven't turned any up in a long while, it's possible there are individuals out there still. One of the species I sampled for hasn't been seen in the state's waterways for decades. The last stream it was seen in was ruined by the landowner and is no longer suitable habitat for the species. There's other streams with suitable habitat, however. If the species exists there and is prematurely declared extinct, the legal protections on those streams are gone and those fish will be gone within a few years for sure.

It's also kind of political. Maybe that fish is gone, but those streams harbor other species which need protection, but have not been listed as endangered yet. Species don't automatically get listed as protected. Someone has to care enough to gather the data and advocate for protection and listing as threatened or endangered. This can take years or decades and a lot of funding. One species listed in a disappearing habitat may also protect a half dozen or more bug species, plants, crustaceans, etc, which do not have the extensive data available or anyone focused on getting them protected.

Oh, and then someone also has to care enough to sue the entities that aren't going to abide by the Endangered Species Act until they get sued a couple times. I'm not exaggerating. My first reality check as far as how conservation really works was an internship surveying a very cute and popular (among bird people) species of bird. The woman I was working for spent a decent amount of her time taking businesses, land owners, and other sectors of the government to court for flagrant violations of the laws protecting the species.

And funding, don't forget funding. Those grants for the protection of that species are gone the second it's declared extinct and the biologists who rely on that funding to maintain species inventories in those areas can no longer afford to hire techs to slog through the middle of nowhere and inventory extant species.

Generally, the only people in a hurry to declare a species extinct are those who want the protections lifted on that habitat. Maybe it's a little dishonest to take so long declaring a species extinct. Honestly, even if there are 10 Yangtze paddlefish left out there, the species still isn't coming back. However, as far as environmental health is concerned, it is beneficial to drag that funding and protection out for as long as possible, even when the listed species is well beyond saving.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#146
post #75

Padlefish and Baiji dolphin river. Both went extinct at the same time by the same dam. 2003 and 2007. Our time. The "Las Vegas Frog" have a stroke of luck, but it is always the same history And the californian vaquita is probably extinct yet.

Different dam; the dolphin was probably Three Gorges, though it was only one of many contributing factors.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#147
post #122
post #102

Interestingly there is a term for the last known member of a species: Endling [1]. Scrolling through that Wikipedia article always gives me an eerie feeling. It looks like the Chinese paddlefish is not listed yet though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endling

Last time similar topic came up (either here or reddit), someone posted this recording of a ”Kauaʻi ʻōʻō” bird [1] in which a male, apparently the last of its species, is trying to connect with a female. Reeally eerie. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDRY0CmcYNU

Absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking, thank you - I might never have stumbled upon that.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#148

I got downvoted in another thread for extolling the ecological consequences of dams. Dams should not be considered “clean” energy. They’re environmental disasters. Both upstream and downstream.

Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. A dam focuses externalities on the same communities that benefit from the dam (jobs and revenue). Fossil fuels benefit the producers but everyone suffers the externalities.

> Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism.

Hard disagree.

Dams simply need to be categorized as dirty energy. They are probably less dirty than coal or natural gas energy. However dams are dirty and they should be treated as such.

Categorizing an energy source as dirty does not mean we don't use it. It doesn't even mean we don't build more of it. We don't have 100% clean energy today. I hope that someday we do. And when we are 100% clean energy I hope that 0% of it comes from dams. Because dam energy is extremely unclean, damaging, and harmful. And it's not "NIMBY" to say so.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Hessler writes about his experience in Sichuan during the time the three gorges dam was being built [1]. Many people have had to sacrifice a lot for these dams. However, IIRC many receive some form of compensation from the government (adequate or not). [1] https://www.amazon.com/River-Town-Years-Yangtze-P-S/dp/00608...

What compensation do the paddlefish get ;-)

Extinction :(

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#150

I got downvoted in another thread for extolling the ecological consequences of dams. Dams should not be considered “clean” energy. They’re environmental disasters. Both upstream and downstream.

Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. A dam focuses externalities on the same communities that benefit from the dam (jobs and revenue). Fossil fuels benefit the producers but everyone suffers the externalities.

As far as I understand, that’s not even really true in the case of the Three Gorges Dam. The community upstream suffered from the lost of ancestral land, while the cities downstream benefitted the most from the new, cheap electricity (and less risk of flooding).
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