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What I learned today: Never apply for a job

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Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#21

Post by chc »

ecaron wrote: post #17
shawnee_ wrote: post #11

While we're on the topic, I'm just going to say that those "anonymous" job postings here on YC drive me nuts "YCW11 company hiring front end dev! New office space! We There are a only couple YC companies I wouldn't want to work for, period. Mainly from the recent crop, but those bad seeds kinda ruin the whole "work for a random anonymous YC company!" recruitment tool.

Thank you for standing up and saying that! The only occasion I've ever found justified for hiding the company name is when you're hiring in a town where the unemployment rate is > 25% and you can't manage the unemployment mob that inevitably forms outside the store. There is only one reason those anonymous job postings exist - lazy hiring managers. I really wish pg would put his foot down and tell people to start sta…

I don't think that's true. AFAIK, the anonymous listings are usually companies that haven't publicly launched yet and don't want to burn through their TechCrunch coverage early. It's PR, not HR. I do agree, though, that they're kind of annoying to read and I have trouble imagining what kind of desperate souls apply to these employment-roulette positions.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#22

Post by ecaron »

Sites like Monster are going the way of the yellow pages. And just like you could replace the yellow pages with asking neighbors who they recommend, there is a balance between finding good sources (using Google to find a plumber, using Indeed/LinkUp* to find jobs) and understanding the value of networking.

There is a reason CareerBuilder drops millions on a SuperBowl ad each year and Monster spent over $1.2M at an employer party in Las Vegas this last weekend. If all jobseekers knew what Nick discovered, there'd be no reason for these websites to exist!

Yes, I work at LinkUp - but since anyone would include it I figured I'd be forgiven for including it

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#23

Post by sbisker »

ecaron wrote: post #17
shawnee_ wrote: post #11

While we're on the topic, I'm just going to say that those "anonymous" job postings here on YC drive me nuts "YCW11 company hiring front end dev! New office space! We There are a only couple YC companies I wouldn't want to work for, period. Mainly from the recent crop, but those bad seeds kinda ruin the whole "work for a random anonymous YC company!" recruitment tool.

Thank you for standing up and saying that! The only occasion I've ever found justified for hiding the company name is when you're hiring in a town where the unemployment rate is > 25% and you can't manage the unemployment mob that inevitably forms outside the store. There is only one reason those anonymous job postings exist - lazy hiring managers. I really wish pg would put his foot down and tell people to start sta…

People will have a different opinion of you based on the order in which you tell them facts about yourself. Dan Ariely did some good research into this phenomenon on online dating sites. If a company tells you "we have great pay!...but we sell cigarettes" you're going to have a better response than if the company tells you "we sell cigarettes...but hey, great pay!" That's life. Companies hide negative facts about themselves behind these sorts of ordering tricks because, well, they work.

Now, YC companies seem the least likely to have anything to hide about themselves. That said, when I see an ad like this, my first reaction is to shy away - because even if they do have some legit reason for staying stealth (competitiveness, hiding YC funding, etc), they could also be doing this just to hide some fact that I might find negative later in the interview process. I've been burned one too many times by non-YC companies doing this to me, that I'm concerned to see YC companies doing it too.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#24

Post by spodek »

fedorabbit wrote: post #9

I kind realized that a while ago, but it is difficult for nerd like me to leave computer and go meet people... what's to talk about? "I just found this snippet it's kinda fun!" ? :(

Difficulty meeting people is a major impediment to hiring anyone who will be part of a team. I don't know any jobs that don't require teamwork and human interaction.

You've gotten over many difficult things in life. This difficulty may require different skills to overcome, but you're probably capable of it. You'll probably find it rewarding.

I did.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#25

Post by sbisker »

euroclydon wrote: post #12
OliverSteenbuck wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think that it would be the used car nobody who knew it wanted... When jobs show up in those sites, the company already failed at filling the position through trusted references. (or so is my impression) Doesn't have to be bad ofcourse, but propably warrants more due dilligence on the job seekers part than a good reference.

There are so many reasons why a company might not be good at recruiting employees. They run from not having enough time, to opening an office in a new city, or simply being willing to outsource networking so they can do stuff they like. If you're looking for a job as a place to make friends and work with interesting people, fine, that's good stuff. But, many places of work are simply businesses, trying to make money…

That may be true, but it's obvious that recruiting has a problem if it's so hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in their own ranks. It's the same problem with realty and real estate agents.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#26

Post by dolvlo »

Really horrible advice.

We're not all entrepreneurs; some of us come from families and communities where the only way we can "make it" is to apply for job openings.

In any case, if companies aren't properly considering the applications being sent to them, they're doing it wrong and missing out on a ton of potential talent.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#27

Post by slindsey »

OliverSteenbuck wrote: post #6

sounds like a good strategy, at every job I've worked the first question following a statement of "We need more people" was "Does anybody know somebody who would fit in here ?"

Every time I say "I know the perfect person", my bosses say, "No, we need to 'put the feelers out' and compare. There's no way to know if your guy is perfect without interviewing to see who's out there."

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#28

Post by leftnode »

chc wrote: post #21
ecaron wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for standing up and saying that! The only occasion I've ever found justified for hiding the company name is when you're hiring in a town where the unemployment rate is > 25% and you can't manage the unemployment mob that inevitably forms outside the store. There is only one reason those anonymous job postings exist - lazy hiring managers. I really wish pg would put his foot down and tell people to start sta…

I don't think that's true. AFAIK, the anonymous listings are usually companies that haven't publicly launched yet and don't want to burn through their TechCrunch coverage early. It's PR, not HR. I do agree, though, that they're kind of annoying to read and I have trouble imagining what kind of desperate souls apply to these employment-roulette positions.

It's not the anonymity that is bothersome, they're just horribly written job posts. And worse still: comments are disabled so we can't ask any further questions.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#29

Post by orangecat »

spodek wrote: post #24
fedorabbit wrote: post #9

I kind realized that a while ago, but it is difficult for nerd like me to leave computer and go meet people... what's to talk about? "I just found this snippet it's kinda fun!" ? :(

Difficulty meeting people is a major impediment to hiring anyone who will be part of a team. I don't know any jobs that don't require teamwork and human interaction. You've gotten over many difficult things in life. This difficulty may require different skills to overcome, but you're probably capable of it. You'll probably find it rewarding. I did.

In my experience, working as part of a team requires different social skills than marketing oneself and networking; I'm decent at the former and hopeless at the latter. Employers who only consider social butterflies will be potentially missing out on lots of talented candidates.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#30

Post by MartinCron »

leftnode wrote: post #28
chc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true. AFAIK, the anonymous listings are usually companies that haven't publicly launched yet and don't want to burn through their TechCrunch coverage early. It's PR, not HR. I do agree, though, that they're kind of annoying to read and I have trouble imagining what kind of desperate souls apply to these employment-roulette positions.

It's not the anonymity that is bothersome, they're just horribly written job posts. And worse still: comments are disabled so we can't ask any further questions.

I personally do find the anonymity bothersome.

If an organization expects me to send a detailed resume to them without knowing the first thing about them, that starts the entire relationship off in a profoundly asymmetrical way.

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