Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate? • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#531

Post by _game_of_life » Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #314

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked in a sandwich shop to survive while going to college($7.5/hr, 30 hrs/week), I can't imagine the universe some people live in where an income of $375,000 doesn't seem sky high. It's like there is a section of people who live in a different world. I understand that it isn't much for an executive, but then that stuns me even more. Edit: median US salary is around $70k. This executive's pay is over…

I survived by doing landscaping and construction labor. You really know you're earning your nickels and dimes in the Florida summers when you work those jobs. Imaging a universe where people make $500k+ is pretty easy. I mean, let's be serious for just a minute. This is a tech focused community. Programming, IT, computer science, you didnt really get into this line of work because of the glamour, the guaranteed spot…

>Beginning at late Genx to early millennial, you're in this for the money.

Huh, this is interesting, maybe in some areas of America? But broadly speaking... Outside of America, no. Take a look at even senior dev salaries in Canada.

They're equivalent to master's of social work positions, oftentimes less. Having had education and work experience in both social work and computer science, I can tell you that if you want a stable, low-stress job that requires an "easy" degree, that MSW degree will serve you far better.

Not to mention that remote work is still rare. So that 90k senior AI research job, requiring a Phd at the Autodesk office in Toronto is... not great. Most computer scientists I know are happy with being middle class and just really enjoy the subject matter. Maybe this is rare in your area of the world?

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#532

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #398

mistrial9 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

naw - I took three paragraphs of an important but obscure 20th century news event, rewrote using 8th grade English principles for clarity and order of facts, specifically and purposefully not changing any statement in the content, and it was immediately reverted with no recourse. The original was demonstrably awful writing -- total gatekeeping.

Rewriting whole paragraphs for clarity is very much the kind of thing that should be discussed on the talk page. That's why the feature exists.

> Rewriting whole paragraphs for clarity is very much the kind of thing that should be discussed on the talk page. That's why the feature exists.

That's absolutely not how it's been presented for the last couple decades, though.

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#533

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #380

KingOfCoders wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the easier it is the the more people are involved. That was the original idea of the WikiWay, to make editing simple [1] Second if this is the way to go - and I don't agree [2] - the UI should reflect this workflow and not propose a different one that mostly fails. [Edit] PRs also assume some kind of owner and committer relationship, which might be right for open source projects but is not the case of Wikiped…

The community is the owner, the individual editor/committer has to reach consensus if the edit is disputed.

But that doesn't go for reverters, does it?

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#534

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

japanuspus wrote: post #196

xbar wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about you keep your 10 bucks and stop using Wikipedia rather than suggesting ads? Please.

The main value of wikipedia has been provided not by the wikipedia foundation, but by the volunteers who write the articles on wikipedia. My work on wikipedia articles is for the benefit of my fellow humans, not to allow some organisation to start implying that everyone has a moral obligation to give them money. That was never part of the deal when I contributed my work.

Having to see ads even there was never part of the deal when I contributed mine (puny as it may be).

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#535

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

MrDresden wrote: post #505

pydry wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this attitude peculiar. The editors who provided all that value will get $0. It's like buying an album where $9.92 goes to the label and yet the label still complains about freeloaders depriving the poor musicians of income if they don't pay the $10.

You are comparing apples and oranges there.

So? Why should one fruit grower get away with a practice that is almost universally condemned in another?

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#536

Post by thomasahle » Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

exporectomy wrote: post #218

thomasahle wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wikipedia hit its editor peak around 2007 It's a very sharp peak. What happened in 2007?

no-follow was added to links in Jan 2007. I wonder if the drop was a drop in spam editors when SEO stopped working.

I didn't know they did that. Sounds like a great decision!

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#537

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

mihaaly wrote: post #434

zozbot234 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No mention of educating the world "Imagine a world where every single person on the planet can freely share in the sum of human knowledge: this is our commitment." They could hardly be any clearer about it. And even if your goal is to keep Wikipedia thriving, you need these sister projects.

That quote is about sharing knowledge not about educating people. Different things with different requirements, a different (related) activity. Sharing knowledge is a well understood long lasting profile, education is not. Also the 'need' for sister projects is an unfunded claim, a mere opinion. Actually the "bring you unlimited access to reliable information" that is explicitly mentioned in fundraisers already thriv…

> That quote is about sharing knowledge not about educating people.

So what is educating people, if not sharing knowledge?

> Different things with different requirements, a different (related) activity.

That's one way of looking at it. Another is: Just different words for the same thing.

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#538

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

SirSourdough wrote: post #475

justinclift wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea if the Wikipedia people getting those salaries are based in the US?

Wikimedia Foundation is headquartered in SF, so probably safe to assume a lot of executives getting those salaries are based there.

So how about moving it somewhere else? What's so particularly encyclopaedic about San Francisco that it has to be based there?

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#539

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

reader_mode wrote: post #463

benhurmarcel wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany and Scandinavia maybe. In France, Spain, Italy, etc, this is normal. For example here [1] you can see some reliable statistics for France, see page 2 (it's in French but the plots are easy to understand). The median salary (annual before taxes) when starting is 35k€, and roughly increases by 1800€/year. So it only reaches 40k€ after 3 years. It reaches 50k€ after 8 years only. Also all engineers have Maste…

Sorry I assumed we're talking about Software Engineering here, I accept your point. But Italy and Spain aren't really what I would consider Western Europe, they are the less developed parts and I admit I have no experience with France and know nobody who works there.

> But Italy and Spain aren't really what I would consider Western Europe

Yeah, well, you're American, right?

You really are living up to it in many ways.

Re: Wikipedia is swimming in money–why is it begging people to donate?

#540

Post by CRConrad » Mon, May 31, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

reader_mode wrote: post #412

bluescrn wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median income in the UK is just over £30k (about 35k EUR)

And London ?

WTF does that have to do with anything? Isn't this whole discussion about how the WMF shouldn't be based in the fricking most overpriced city they can find?