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It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

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Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#931
post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Isn't the burden of proof on cryptonerds to back up their claims?

Saying something is a scam is a claim in itself.

First it was a payment method, now the fees are too high. Then it was a store of value, but it is too volatile for people who want a safe storage. It's also not private, as appare tly payments can be traced back to their user.

So, what's left? I know you can still make money with it if you joined earlier and you're lucky. Same with a MLM, but at least those don't waste so much energy nor ruin the GPU markets.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#932
post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The store of value concept makes no sense because such a thing cannot exist. When you buy Bitcoin you hope the seller does something that maintains the existence of an economy that exchanges their currency for Bitcoin. You can't just pile up gold and then expect to get something for it if everyone else is dead. You need a group of people (aka economy) willing to work for the gold.

Gold is a store of value insofar as 'value' is something that can be stored. All people mean by this is the demand and supply for Gold is very predictable, relatively speaking.

One difference between Gold and Bitcoin which I don't see discussed often is that it's pretty clear the people who got in first get the most gains. With gold, you can't do anything about that until you invent time travel. With BitCoin, as soon as you realise that, you have an incentive to spin up your own cryptocoin with the only difference being that you get in first. Other people have an incentive to get into your cryptocoin speculating that they can be in first, and then because they are in they have an incentive to hype it to others.

https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/ I clicked "load more" until I saw 1400 cryptocurrencies, if Bitcoin is 12 years old, that's averaging a new cryptocurrency every 3 days since Bitcoin's creation. There's probably a lot more than that.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#933
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's become gold. Preferred by criminals, untraceable (gold is a single stable isotope, basically untraceable). A store of wealth. And you can't buy a pizza with gold, either, and there are tons of scammers who love gold (I remember, about Thailand, the scammers would conspire to get people's gold, a few would talk loudly about how jewels were going up, then someone else in your trip would just happen to mention, des…

You’re going to need a bit more evidence on the “criminals love gold” point. Your thailand example just shows people will scam for small, valuable, fungible things. Gold didn’t have a rep as the hub of black market transactions before bitcoin.

Exactly, scammers love small, valuable, fungible things, and gold and bitcoin are both.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#934
post #279

These two resonated with me: > A lot of intelligent observers look at cryptocurrency, see that it makes no sense, and reasonably infer that they must be missing something profound on the technical level. Tech culture has a nice tradition of not deriding new ideas, but we need to break it here and speak out > [non-tech people] don't see the huge silent majority of tech people who know it's a scam. That's on us It is o…

This huge silent majority that know it is a scam doesn't exist. Crypto is so large, complex and fast-moving that it takes thousands of hours to grasp. If I'd make a list of 100 questions regarding crypto, an exam so to speak, I am reasonably sure that this silent majority can't even answer 5% of the questions. Because they don't know crypto. At all.

If I made a list of 100 questions regarding Sciento-vibro-homeopathology, an exam so to speak, I am reasonably sure that this silent majority who think it's nonsense I just made up on the spot, won't even be able to answer 5% of the questions.

Because they don't know Sciento-resonant-homepathics. At all.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fees high, world too stable, heavy speculation. Cryptos forced to trade on centralized exchanges to avoid fees, making it a much crappier version of something like PayPal. Doesn't help that there's an unending supply of people more than willing to participate in ponzi schemes creating massive volatility and turning the "currency" into the commodity.

Dotcom bubble was the same way. We're in the early stages.

By the time the dotcom bubble burst, email had completely changed the workplace, search engines had completely changed the way people found information, chat rooms had produced an entire online culture, and more. Just think about all of the people on HN who claim that the internet was the best it ever was in the 90s.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#936
post #64

These two resonated with me: > A lot of intelligent observers look at cryptocurrency, see that it makes no sense, and reasonably infer that they must be missing something profound on the technical level. Tech culture has a nice tradition of not deriding new ideas, but we need to break it here and speak out > [non-tech people] don't see the huge silent majority of tech people who know it's a scam. That's on us It is o…

> I'm pretty sure it's nothing but a pyramid scheme, but I always gave the enthusiasts the benefit of the doubt. So go find out? I’m quoting you here for the “pretty sure” part. Do a deep dive. I’be done deep dives on Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, Monero, Nano, Iota, Hyperledger, BSC, Uniswap, Tether, Chainlink and cursory glances at dozens of other coins/tokens. I’m a tech guy. I work on an operating system/embedded s…

> B) they don’t know anything about it besides memes.

Hi there. I've published a few papers in top conferences on BTC and ETH. I don't own a cent of crypto and believe that a lot of it is a very bad idea.

I find it endlessly frustrating when people insist that the only way to disagree with enthusiasts is to be ignorant.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#937
post #865
post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why I need a crypto(tm) Gitcoin and not just a cyber chuck e cheese token? I give cyber-chuck $1 and he gives me 1 cyber token. I can subdivide it 10,000 times and micro-tip any site I want. Why do I need cryptocurrency? If your argument is that crypto would decentralize it, and guarantee a cap on coin totals, I don't buy it. That's not the reason a site owner wouldn't join a coin plan. "I would love…

That's easy and has nothing to do with what you're thinking (although you could hard-code/guarantee emission schedules if you built a smart contract on a decentralized platform) but let's ask, how and where do you redeem your $1 cyber-chuck? Presumably only with the issuer? With a crypto-token, particularly an ERC20 you have the ability to take it to any DEX and use (or create) a liquidity pool that you can then swap…

You propose a world where cyberchuck tokens are useless, but cyberchuck crypto tokens are readily traded on the open market. Cashing out requires people to value the token underneath, and that's a function of who governs the token (and what they let you do with it), not crypto vs. not crypto. Although currently "crypto anything" seems to boost the price of your asset, even if it's just Blockchain Iced Tea.

Fraud reduction by looking at the open market ("nobody's selling these $1 tokens for anything above a nickel!") isn't plausible either - you can do the same thing today by looking at YouTuber payout rates. Those aren't public but it would take the collusion of 10,000+ top tier YouTubers, many of whom don't like YouTube very much, to lie. If YouTube were ever threatened by a more open model (ex. on Patreon, you can see actual income for some creators), they might switch to stay competitive.

> utilize your newly acquired cyber-chucks to generate yield by providing liquidity, collateralizing it, etc).

I can do this with USD so we're really talking about that X day period where my tokens haven't become USD yet. Maybe there is or will be a crypto coin or five that do what Bitcoin was supposed to do - low fees, high volume, easier and cheaper than ACH or Paypal. But if those fees are low enough, I don't necessarily need to keep by cyber chucks as cyber chucks. I could convert to USD and then back into cyber chucks, if cyber chucks is the token of choice. But I think it's far more likely that out of the hundreds-thousands of current coins, the one you pick is going to be a loser in terms of long term utility. Safer to convert to USD and then into whatever today's hot coin is.

Even today, some stock options have surprisingly little price discovery (low volume, big difference between bid and ask price). And those are real, regulated financial instruments with a direct objective relationship to present and future value. I think they can be traded across the whole market too (buy at broker A, sell to someone at broker B). I don't get how, outside of speculation, Company X's coin is going to be worth more than that. Nor will it have better price discovery - there are multiple billion dollar companies who trade stocks and options.

In current "company scrip" modes (ex. casino chips) people generally don't hold onto the not-cash. They exchange it for USD within days. If MGM decides to screw over their customers and cut the conversion rate by 10x, (1) that might be illegal, (2) the % of total customers in history that will be affected are small.

We're also generally proposing micro- or mini-payments - if it's high dollar like a salary, you'll just get USD from working at a company. How many people would take a job at 1-to-1 equivalence in a crypto token instead of a USD salary? Today, I can buy stock in my company using the USD they give me. It's much safer to me because I can choose how much to put in. If I got paid in CompanyCoin that would be a return to the company scrip days. I'd be tied up in risk for minimal gain. If the coin is stable it doesn't matter if I can only invest my USDs every payday.

I admit I don't know much about ERC20 specifically. I still don't see why you can't make a useless token on ERC20. Analogous to making an app that works with all bank accounts that nobody wants to use.

> Note that in Gitcoin's case, GTC serves as a governance token which gives voting rights for their DAO.

People talk about using crypto for democratic community governance. I said this in another comment chain:

> You imply a kind of 51% governance of an open source or community driven project. History shows that community projects fork all the time over personal differences, and majority does not always rule. Google2 coin won't matter if people get mad at Google2's governance and fork it for Google2.5 coin.

Open source is generally driven by a small core of contributors. I don't see crypto voting being anything but a rubber stamp on the current pool of high activity users. I don't hate the idea here but I also don't see much point.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ones?

There's heaps. Hypothetical blockchains, imaginary blockchains, future blockchains, theoretical blockchains, unconfirmed blockchains, academic blockchains; the list is endless!

The ignorance is astounding and the trolling low brow.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#939
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the characterization that the primary use is a scam. That’s like saying the primary use of email is to receive ads and phishing mail.

Are there numbers on what the primary uses of cryptocurrency are? I would guess remittances, purchasing illegal things, purchasing legal things, and ransomware - but I'm not sure in what order.

Yes, take a look at this article by Coinbase for some well-sourced numbers: https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-crypto-is-increasingly-...

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#940

One thing that I find so confusing in the crypto maximalist sphere is the obsession with decentralization of everything but also with mainstream adoption. Coinbase is centralization, bank adoption is centralization, etc... Also if “fear of regulation” causes massive sell-offs, doesn’t it totally fail at being the “anti-government” centralized currency? I’m also just not convinced total decentralization is good? I mea…

Decentralization is a spectrum. Bitcoin cannot be shutdown because it is decentralized. There can be centralized actors within a decentralized system. The major benefit is you can choose between various service providers and switch when you please. With government monopolies you use their service at gunpoint.

Isn't >50% of mining happening in China? So I can go from being at the mercy of a government I can at least vote for to being a the mercy of a dictatorial government I can't have any influence on at all. Doesn't seem like an improvement to me.
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