What I learned today: Never apply for a job
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What I learned today: Never apply for a job
1–10 of 77 posts
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#2It can work out for you, but I don't see how it applies to just anyone. Going to the events takes time, social skills and money (if the events are far).
And, what if you move to another country or switch to a different industry? You still need recruiters in that case, so the Monster isn't releasing it's grip anytime soon.
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#3If you're an experienced software developer with skills in some of the following technologies: PHP/C++/Python/Rails/Django/ASP.NET/SQL/JavaScript/etc and you live in a dynamic market like SF/CHI/PHY/NYC/RDU/etc, then it's enough to simply create a profile on one of the career sites. The recruiters will be after you shortly.
Getting a job via a job board and recruiter won't be all warm and fuzzy like meeting an employeer at a conference. It will be more like buying a used car, but you still don't have to apply in this market.
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#4agree w/ the other ones... that depends a lot, and it's not that easy here in brazil.
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#5Programmers don't want to look for jobs.
So, I've been looking for a programmer to hire for about a week.
I didn't ask for a resume, I asked them to complete an online interview.
I posted the job description, skills needed, responsibilities, and a link to the interview.
In the interview I ask a few upfront questions, regarding who they are, what they've done in the past, what blogs/etc they follow, what kind of environment they like to work in. Then I asked (what I think) are simple questions. I asked them what problems exist on the very webpage they're using (Basically, just run yslow and tell me what it says). I ask them to refactor some garbage code (all they need to do is understand arrays and switch-case). I ask them why 5 lines of javascript takes five minutes to run, and how to improve it. I ask about the absolute basic linux command line tools (ls, cd, mv, chmod). I asked them to write 5 lines of sql that does an inner join, and a few security related questions. I then provide three boxes for resume, cover letters, and anything else they feel may be important.
So, I've entirely ignored the standard process of hiring applicants. I've said "I want real hackers, not idiots who think java is javascript."
I posted it to hackernews jobs, forrst, facebook, twitter, craigslist, and some other places.
What's the pay? I put down the pay is what they feel they're worth, and if we feel they're worth it, we take them. Sounded fair to me.
Want to know what my page stats look like?
500 hits in one week for this job page. 99% bounce in under 10 seconds, and 0 persons have posted to the job.
So what's my point? Nobody wants this job. I clearly outline it's just basic javascript, with a side of PHP and other things. I've had 0 applicants. I have two friends who have been asking me to hire them (epic problems incoming?) and neither of them will submit a damn application form.
I tried to hack the hiring process to get away from HR problems of having thousands of non-programming-programmers apply, and I get 0.
Maybe this is a rant, but I'm sure there's something constructive to take away from it somewhere in this mess.
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#6sounds like a good strategy, at every job I've worked the first question following a statement of "We need more people" was "Does anybody know somebody who would fit in here ?"
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#7If you're an experienced software developer with skills in some of the following technologies: PHP/C++/Python/Rails/Django/ASP.NET/SQL/JavaScript/etc and you live in a dynamic market like SF/CHI/PHY/NYC/RDU/etc, then it's enough to simply create a profile on one of the career sites. The recruiters will be after you shortly. Getting a job via a job board and recruiter won't be all warm and fuzzy like meeting an employ…
I'd think that it would be the used car nobody who knew it wanted...
When jobs show up in those sites, the company already failed at filling the position through trusted references. (or so is my impression)
Doesn't have to be bad ofcourse, but propably warrants more due dilligence on the job seekers part than a good reference.
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#8I'd like to make this resolution as well. No more sending a resume to people who don't know me, no more technical screening because they have no idea how I code, no more "getting to know you" lunches because, well, they don't know me.
It takes quite a bit of effort, so I might not manage to pull this off. Applying for jobs and posting positions on job boards are different sides of the same lazy coin. It takes a lot of talent and effort to become a developer with such an excellent network and reputation that you can generate employment opportunities with a phone call. This is true on the other side as well - many companies just don't have the talent and/or aren't willing to put in the time to get to know who the good developers are. Both sides have to be deeply engaged in the community.
There's a practical issue here, of course - there just may be opportunities that you want to pursue, and a resume, phone screen, technical grilling, and so forth may be the best way to go. And some companies have to staff up so quickly that they just feel like the have to cast a wider net. But both cases do raise certain warning flags... if you're a developer, why aren't you generating offers that interest you from within your own network? If you're an employer, why are you expanding so rapidly that you're unable to recruit from a reliable network?
In the best case scenario, almost all of the above is unnecessary because you've already worked together, so there's no need to take estimates and make guesses about what kind of employer/employee a new prospect would be.
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#9I kind realized that a while ago, but it is difficult for nerd like me to leave computer and go meet people... what's to talk about? "I just found this snippet it's kinda fun!" ? :(
Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job
#10I'd like to make this resolution as well. No more sending a resume to people who don't know me, no more technical screening because they have no idea how I code, no more "getting to know you" lunches because, well, they don't know me. It takes quite a bit of effort, so I might not manage to pull this off. Applying for jobs and posting positions on job boards are different sides of the same lazy coin. It takes a lot o…
I wish you luck, but also I hope that good employers don't closure on the people which they know already, simply because it would mean I cannot come to your place and find a good job straight away, like I always did when I moved across my country first and then into a foreign country.