31–40 of 137 posts
Universal morality doesn't appear to be particularly successful, when faced with tribalism. As far as I can tell, from a darwinian perspective, the right thing (so called) would be to encourage universalism in your competitors, while practicing tribalism yourself.
People involved in the insurrection, weren't going against universally agreed moral standards — i.e. the need for democracy.
While I don't agree with their motivation or interpretation, these people felt that democracy was being attacked. It was a desire to uphold moral principles that fuelled the raids.
Hard to even approach answering this question without some kind of workable definition of "objective" and "universal" and "morality." What does a person mean when they say all these words together? My best guess would be something like, "All people would agree that any action recommended by this morality are right, and any action prohibited by this morality are wrong, and this morality either recommends or prohibits…
I think that this article is missing a few insights that I value. One is that I’ve come to view something like philosophical truth essentially unknowable- There may be universal truths, but proving that across all scenarios is not feasible. They may even (or likely) be contradictory. Even morality derived from written religious texts has been subject to countless interpretations and reinterpretations. This it’s best to treat morality as probabilistic- I might be highly confident that my stance is correct, but I must always accept that I may be wrong and update on new information.
The other is that authors desire to “give up tribalism” is too simplistic. Tribalism is deeply intertwined with identity, and I don’t think it’s possible to get humans to give up on the concept of identity. However, identity is a complex multilayered thing. I identify as an engineer, as an American, as a man, as a Catholic, as an ethnic Jew, as a Seahawks fan, as a skier, as an alumnus, and many other things. These groups do not share a common morality, but I find ways of coping and moving between them. I think we'd have more success getting people to embrace multiple identities and seeking tolerance between them then to abandon tribe seeking behavior.
Any sufficiently universal morality must include the impact our actions/inactions have on animals (or any other entity capable of "experiencing" some reality). We are nowhere near such a concept, and almost assuredly never will be.
It depends on who defines morality, which invalidates the concept of a “universal” morality. If the definer of the morality decides that human lives are the most important and it would be immoral to hold animals and plants above humans, it would produce a completely different end result. Or they may determine that all you mention plus natural formations like lakes and mountains and rock formations deserve protection…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We need to stick with tribalism, but make everyone part of the same tribe. How is that different than giving up tribalism?
Because you still have things you're for and against. But they shouldn't be aligned along trivial lines like sports, religion and politics. And yeah I know calling these "trivial" sounds odd, but they really are.
Two people can support different football teams, but still serve in the same army side by side, or work for the same company. They can support different politics and even be friends. Yes really.
Erasing group identities is user dumb. Why not just promote and encourage tolerant civilised behaviour. Since when did that become unthinkable?
Well, we need to buckle down and think it. That is the way forward.
I know she is divisive, but Ayn Rand lays out a pretty good model for universal morality.
My understanding of her philosophy is "let the strong win, fuck the rest". Could you elaborate on what you think is her "universal morality"?
His is view is the seed of this universal morality, surely?
Dominant cultures always impose laws on subordinated cultures. In the 19th century the answer to this problem was simple. "Just go over there and make them follow our rules." These days we tie ourselves into knots doing the same thing while pretending to respect other cultures.