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QUIC is now RFC 9000

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Re: QUIC is now RFC 9000

#241

Post by [deleted] »

jeltz wrote: post #48
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #35

> The internet transport ecosystem has been ossified for decades now, and QUIC breaks out of this ossification But it's still just a layer on top of UDP, and still implemented at the application, like in the past. So how is the ossification broken? Every app has to implement it itself rather than calling a syscall and letting the OS deal with its complexities (same as for TLS, making fewer apps implement it without a…

Why can't QUIC be implemented in the Kernel? Just because something can be implemented in user space does not mean that it has to.

[deleted]

Re: QUIC is now RFC 9000

#242

Post by quotemstr »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #233
quotemstr wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if it's not in the OS, people are going to cheat more often on congestion control to prioritize their own streams. It's a tragedy of the commons. It's only because TCP is ossified and usually in the kernel that we haven't seen a race to the bottom already.

I'm pretty sure that's not how congestion control works... My ISP doesn't honor my congestion control flags. Whatever congestion control I set up ONLY changes things on my side of the ISP connection. And yes, within my LAN, I definitely can prioritize various streams.

Why do you think it is that we do congestion control at all? Why doesn't every program spam UDP packets as fast as it can write them to the NIC?

Re: QUIC is now RFC 9000

#243

Post by NoInkling »

brundolf wrote: post #195

Let's say I wanted to add HTTP3 support to my web service - perhaps a NodeJS one, for example. What's that look like right now, practically speaking? Is it supported at all yet in stable web servers? Is it as simple as flipping a config property in my web framework of choice? Does it only work on Linux, or all major OSes? Or none of them yet out of the box? Does it perform as well or better on all axes, or are we wai…

> Let's say I wanted to add HTTP3 support to my web service - perhaps a NodeJS one, for example. What's that look like right now, practically speaking?

Probably the same as it did/does with HTTP/2 - stick a reverse proxy in front that supports it. I think Nginx and Caddy have experimental support.

Re: QUIC is now RFC 9000

#244

Post by DougN7 »

cormacrelf wrote: post #64
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #35

> The internet transport ecosystem has been ossified for decades now, and QUIC breaks out of this ossification But it's still just a layer on top of UDP, and still implemented at the application, like in the past. So how is the ossification broken? Every app has to implement it itself rather than calling a syscall and letting the OS deal with its complexities (same as for TLS, making fewer apps implement it without a…

The “ossification” that QUIC deals with is primarily about internet routers who decide to dig into their IP packets. https://http3-explained.haxx.se/en/why-quic/why-ossification Many have optimisations around TCP and long-standing TCP characteristics, which they are able to do because the TCP headers are unencrypted. This led to TCP being difficult to improve, because of all the implementations out there making assum…

But isn’t the “damage” these middleware layers do actually good optimizations/features that people pay for? The ossification is the problem, not the ability to optimize IMHO.

Re: QUIC is now RFC 9000

#245

Post by mnot »

cesarb wrote: post #127
treszkai wrote: post #116

> QUIC was developed through a collaborative and iterative standardization process at the IETF after almost five years, 26 face-to-face meetings, 1,749 issues, and many thousands of emails. 26 face-to-face meeting in 5 years is an extremely low number; I'm glad to see that the developers of the Internet embrace remote work :)

These face-to-face meetings are probably the IETF meetings ( https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ ), which seem to be around 3 per year ( https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/past/ ), plus a few extra quic-specific meetings ( https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/interim/ ).

see https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/

Re: QUIC is now RFC 9000

#246

Post by saagarjha »

snuxoll wrote: post #24
infogulch wrote: post #4

Should have waited for 9001. Oh my mistake, they have several RFCs from 8999-9002.

Is QUIC really worthy of the over 9000 meme? I can’t help but feel we wasted a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I mean every RFC over 9000 is an "over 9000" opportunity.
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