Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1 • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#631

Post by jtbayly » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

ratww wrote: post #626

jtbayly wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweetwater is nothing like Amazon’s customer support. You can’t call Amazon and ask them what equipment you need to accomplish a task. Among many other differences…

I never said or implied the opposite. "Great like Amazon" is not the same as "exactly like Amazon".

Sorry. I realize that. I just think the comparison gives the wrong impression because of how much more you can get in service from Sweetwater, that most people would never realize were possibilities if Amazon is what they are used to.

Was only trying to improve the info you offered a bit more.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#632

Post by wpietri » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #612

wpietri wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds nice. How does this relate to you repeatedly doubting what I said?

So, you been ordering books for decades from Amazon. Has your book ordering experience gone down? * I guess I’m just trying to understand what exactly has declined over two decades? Because I feel like I’ve had the opposite experience.

I refer you to the my original comment: "The thing I really loved about Amazon is that they had their act together. But that has declined drastically over the decades; now whenever I actually have to deal with them it seems like there's a ton of internal chaos."

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#633

Post by rhines » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:35 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #476

ptero wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For expensive stuff I almost never go with Amazon now: too many counterfeit / fly by night sellers. For "prosumer" items a store that serves professionals is likely to watch their suppliers very carefully and have customer-friendly policies when things hit a snag. For cameras and optics (and flash sticks) B&H is my go-to place. My 2c.

> B&H is my go-to place I will also throw in a vote for B&H. A customer service rep from NYC once called to personally answer some questions I had about a sub-$100 product. This happens often. This week I ordered a display with free shipping that was scheduled to arrive 5 days later. I received it in 24 hours - 4 days earlier than expected. Their return policy is also hassle-free. For music or audio products, I buy f…

The one issue with B&H is that if something isn't in stock, their estimates are nowhere near accurate. Currently been waiting 2 months for an item that was being stocked in "7-10" days. But if it's in stock they're a good option.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#634

Post by mint2 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #66

reikonomusha wrote: post #3

I do not trust Amazon to ship anything safely and securely anymore. Almost everything I receive is damaged, late, or mis-delivered. Books are especially abused somewhere in Amazon’s fulfillment. (They’re always bent, creased, or dirty.) Items that are supposed to be 1-day shipping typically take >=3, and Amazon’s tracking mostly says “oops! it’ll come trust us”. (Not verbatim, obviously.) Amazon’s return process is b…

I'm genuinely surprised that people have such vastly different experiences with Amazon. I made 231 orders with them last year(lockdown....) And haven't had a problem with a single one. Couple times I wanted to return something they just refunded me without asking to send the item back. Everything arrives next day, always(here in UK anyway), and the customer support is stellar compared to literally anywhere else. Anyo…

Someone here half joked about the LTV calculation determining how easily they accept returns. Amazon would be incredibly incompetent not to have an A-list who get priority treatment. If they don’t put people like you who make 200+ orders on it, that would be odd.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#635

Post by mint2 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #189

marban wrote: post #44

I've placed approx. 15k orders with Amazon Germany in 20 years and have probably had less than 100 issues, mostly with FBA sellers. I get an answer from CS within 10 minutes and 1-day shipments are on time ~98%. Refunds are issued as soon as I drop the package in the return box. Call me a fan. The best experience is still Amazon JP but returns are a little more complicated (Even within Japan) — Obviously b/c you more…

It really does surprise me how many people online claim have trouble with them. My experience has been essentially entirely positive as well.

It also surprises me how triple platinum status customers are in disbelief that some people who don’t make hundred or thousands of orders don’t get the kid-glove experience and are treated less well.

Amazon can both treat a large number of people well and treat other customers badly, there’s enough customers to do both to millions.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#636

Post by antifa » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #120

paxys wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I get the frustration, I also don't understand the logic of continuing to order from a restaurant when you have frequent bad experiences with them. Is it really surprising that after a while Doordash just doesn't want to be in the middle of that relationship?

Given that they banned the customer, not the restaurant, they obviously do want to be in the middle of that relationship, but only with the customers who won't rightly complain about it.

They could have also just blocked the user from ordering at specific restaurants.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#637

Post by antifa » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

techdragon wrote: post #77

dstaley wrote: post #35

This is certainly one of those instances where I'd raise hell, but I actually avoid trying to file lost item claims with Amazon for smaller ticket items. I know they have automated systems in place to prevent fraud, and I'm terrified that reporting for smaller ticket items will get my Amazon account banned. I've had a friend have this happen with his Doordash account; the sushi place he orders from a lot was pretty b…

I once got banned from a pizza place for this. I had some fussy eating friends and would order pizza, but they would frequently screw up orders like “no cheese”, sometimes even multiple times in succession, as in I’d order it, tell them they screwed up, they would send a replacement and it too would be screwed up… eventually I “wasn’t allowed to register any more complaints”.

I encourage everyone to publicly document companies like doordash punishing you for the crime of asserting your rights.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#638

Post by mlyle » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #629

mlyle wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I purchase package insurance on something Amazon ships to me? In theory, Amazon's T&C's attempt to pass on the risk of loss to me after delivery of the item to a carrier. In practice, this is far less clear, because of merchant agreements / cardholder agreements and overall FTC regulation of goods sold directly to consumers. But it may be moot, anyways: if Amazon decides to screw me, they have a bunch of digit…

Is there anything preventing you from having separate amazon account for digital assets and physical orders? That seems like almost a requirement give what I've heard about them in many comments throughout this thread.

Amazon routinely disables 'related accounts' when suspending an account. In practice, they know who you are on each, because of payment verification, etc. So I'm not sure how surefire of a solution this is.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#639

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

mananaysiempre wrote: post #572

an_opabinia wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like: Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue from your transactions so far Revenue = The sum of your past transactions Refund? = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0 This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't g…

While what you’re saying about how it works sounds extremely plausible, I am rather dubious about the idea that this is how it ought to work (and the inference that this is simple, therefore it’s how it ought to work). Taken to the extreme (and I don’t see anything in the argument that prevents it being taken to the extreme) and combined with acceptance of utility functions (_i.e._ that the value of anything is compa…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#640

Post by jquery » Mon, May 31, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

blihp wrote: post #541

throwawayboise wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their refund policy was literally "accepting returns on anything for any reason" how is it "hacking" to return a laptop after a year?

That policy assumed good faith on the part of the consumer. The original thinking was likely 'OK, if they return it after it's because it was a lemon/never worked right/etc' rather than for abusive reasons like 'TV returned right after Superbowl Sunday' (because they had their party and no longer need it) or 'returned laptop after 6 months' (because the school/work project ended and they no longer need it) So the ass…

The policy even assumed some amount of semi-bad faith behavior, the thinking was their return policy was also a bit of a charity program for the needy and destitute[1] (a Costco member lost their job and so returns a bunch of items for cash, etc). What they didn’t anticipate was the sheer number of people who began acting in bad faith (and the deflationary nature of electronics making it especially tempting), it was too much to bear.

It’s a shame the policy is gone. There was really no peace of mind quite like it, knowing that if your device failed after years of use, but still due to a defect, you had recourse. And for poor people, it was a godsend of a program especially (and not because it could be abused, but simply Costco providing a service that anything you buy will work as advertised)

[1]source: some internal training I received back in 1998