I recall visiting the Yangtze river by boat tour around 1997. This was before the dam was built and the place was beautiful. Imagine the grand canyon but it was covered with lush vegetation. We visited a center where there were models of the three gorges dam would soon to be built. On the tour they said we would be the last tourists to see the Yangtze as it stands, after the dam, many landmarks/settlements would be flooded, and even back then people critiqued how many species of fish would die because they can no longer swim up river to spawn.
Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
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Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#42> This dam, which was constructed without a fish ladder or bypass, cut off the paddlefish from their only spawning grounds upstream, which had only been discovered in the late 1970s. How effective are fish ladders? If they’re effective, shouldn’t we focus on building a fish ladder on all existing dams?
Fish ladders are minimally effective. They are typically installed to add a rubber stamp to dams and say "look, we tried! It's not our fault the ecosystem is getting destroyed". Same thing with fish breeding and release programs.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
After reading the article it parses out as “dam separates the largest paddlefish from its spawn, fish is now extinct”.
It seems like a poor HN title for a very interesting article (which has a perfectly serviceable actual title btw). The saddest thing is that there are apparently technical solutions to this that could have potentially saved the species. The article mentions fish ladders and bypasses for dams. I'm not sure if the ladders are suitable for a huge fish like this, or whether it has the necessary jumping ability, but some…
They could even have been saved by a captive breeding program. Their American cousins are the subject of a lot of breeding programs. There's a number of state and federal hatcheries that capture breeding adults, strip the roe and milt, and return the adults to the wild. The fertilized eggs hatch into tiny paddle fish and they're raised in ponds until they're big enough to be released in the wild. The same is done with the pallid sturgeon, whose breeding habitat in the US is more or less destroyed due to the channelization of rivers for use by boats.
It wasn't inevitable, but now it's impossible to bring them back.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#44After reading HN voraciously for the past years, I though Chinese ecological protections and records were flawless, and the dam was a sign of prosperity, jobs, opportunities and freedom to the Chinese people.
What went wrong?
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole article is talking about China attempts to preserve endangered fish species. It mostly talking about how in the 80 and 90s they didn't do those preservation research when building dams. The article also talks that its not only happening in China these old paddlefish species are endangered all over the globe.
> The article also talks that its not only happening in China these old paddlefish species are endangered all over the globe. What remarkable a looking fish, it looks more like a shark with a very elongated nose. Well, pat-on the-back progress aside of their 'efforts', I feel that this is in-line with not just the CCP's outview on the World, but Humanity in general. Biodiversity be damned (no pun intended) if it stan…
This is more or less what modern zoos do. They fund the conservation efforts using income generated from sales at the park. At the one here, the majority of animals aren't on display. They're maintained in the back areas for breeding, study, and conservation. There's breeding populations of native plants and beetles from the region as well as threatened species from around the world.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#46Serious question here - not starting a flamewar. Are there any real organizations in China with power that protect the ecosystem and animals there? From an outsider it seems like they just build whatever they want without any concern for the environment they live in which ultimately will do significant damage to their own human population after the environment collapses and can't support them.
You know China is not a democracy right? There’s only one organization in China with any real power and they’re the ones building the dams.
The environment collapsing so that it can’t support people is a pretty drastic leap from running certain fish into extinction.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#47What was wrong with the better original title "The Chinese paddlefish, one of world's largest fish, has gone extinct"
98% of the time someone changes the title of the article to which they are linking they make it worse.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole article is talking about China attempts to preserve endangered fish species. It mostly talking about how in the 80 and 90s they didn't do those preservation research when building dams. The article also talks that its not only happening in China these old paddlefish species are endangered all over the globe.
To be fair you haven't answered my question but stated that there are nascent efforts to preserve endangered fish after the damage is done. I don't doubt there are efforts however I refer to any arm of the government with real power or any institution that isn't related to the government with real power. Agree species are dying everywhere after all we are in an Holocene extinction event. That said it seems to happeni…
The distinction you're applying seem to be arbitrary. What makes Chinese efforts nascent but American efforts (where species also continue to go extinct) developed?
Most efforts to preserve animals come after the damage is done. That's why we maintain an endangered species list.
I'm not going to argue that China is as committed to, or as successful at, the goal as say the US is, but "not as good" is very different from claiming they fundamentally lack something the West possesses.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#49Serious question here - not starting a flamewar. Are there any real organizations in China with power that protect the ecosystem and animals there? From an outsider it seems like they just build whatever they want without any concern for the environment they live in which ultimately will do significant damage to their own human population after the environment collapses and can't support them.
Note that this dam was built in 1970, when no-one was worrying too much about the long-term consequences of dams.
Noted. That doesn't change or answer the question though. I am curious if there is a real movement for protection in China with any real power.
Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like a poor HN title for a very interesting article (which has a perfectly serviceable actual title btw). The saddest thing is that there are apparently technical solutions to this that could have potentially saved the species. The article mentions fish ladders and bypasses for dams. I'm not sure if the ladders are suitable for a huge fish like this, or whether it has the necessary jumping ability, but some…
They could even have been saved by a captive breeding program. Their American cousins are the subject of a lot of breeding programs. There's a number of state and federal hatcheries that capture breeding adults, strip the roe and milt, and return the adults to the wild. The fertilized eggs hatch into tiny paddle fish and they're raised in ponds until they're big enough to be released in the wild. The same is done wit…
They did mention in the article some captive breeding attempts, but not sure if that was a case of 'too little, too late'.