China allows couples to have three children • Hacker News Board

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#171

Post by nitrogen » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

roody15 wrote: post #164

Interesting side note on china during the one-child policy era. This policy was enforced on the masses but highly educated people were given waivers. If you were a engineer, professor or any highly skilled professional you were encouraged to have lots of children. China’s one child policy was mainly about population control but also had a eugenics component to it as well.

It seems the problem is in the use of force. Apart from that, if there's a group of people that would make better than average parents, and whose kids would be more likely to contribute more to society than they consume, then shouldn't that group be encouraged to have and adopt as many kids as they can afford to support?

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#172

Post by marcus_holmes » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

infinity0 wrote: post #64

marcus_holmes wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent years travelling around SE Asia, and met plenty of Chinese, enough to decide I did not want to go there. All of them were openly racist (mind you, all of SE Asia is openly racist, so this is nothing unusual). I accept that there are minority ethnic identities within China, but I have been told over and again (by Chinese people) that China is Han. I have Chinese friends here in Berlin who still won't talk abou…

My direct experience contradicts your direct experience. I'm Chinese, grew up in China until I was 5, and visit it every now and again. > I have been told over and again (by Chinese people) that China is Han. You are either selectively reporting, or selectively misremembering things based on your own existing prejudices. I have certainly talked to more Chinese people than you, and nobody has ever said this. I lived i…

I'm sorry you experienced racism. As an Australian and Brit, I apologise for our countries not living up to our ideals on these things. I can't speak for Germany - I'm a guest here too - but I know that most Germans are working towards eliminating racism from their culture.

That's not my experience of the Chinese, however. China is not working to eliminate racism. It doesn't have these ideals. As a white person I will never be accepted as a Chinese person by the Chinese, because in Chinese people's eyes, Chinese == Han (from my experience). This isn't unusual in Asia - Cambodians only recognise Khmer people, Japan only recognises ethnic Japanese people, and so on. I have white friends who have lived in Cambodia for decades, speak the language perfectly, have Cambodian families, but who can never become citizens and will never be accepted as "Cambodian" because of their race.

This isn't true of Australians (for example). Australia doesn't equate Australian = caucasian [0]. You can emigrate to Australia, and become a citizen, and the vast majority of Australians will accept you as an Australian because of that. Being Australian is not about race, but more about culture and commitment. Australia's sense of identity is not linked to its ethnic identity in the same way that SE Asian countries are.

[0] There are always some racist dickheads who will disagree with this. Sorry for that.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#173

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #124

eloisius wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the systemic cause was clearly pointed out: the one child policy.

And the killing of children follows, naturally

[deleted]

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#174

Post by zacherates » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

jp555 wrote: post #65

Good luck. With a shrunken generation of family to help due to 30+ years of one-child policy, and almost no social support (China does not really have socialized healthcare in practice) there's no one to help take care of larger families. But there is a HUGE number of rapidly aging parents and grandparents to take care of. Add a culture that puts accumulating wealth as the #1 virtue, and it becomes nearly impossible…

> Today Quebec has the lowest provincial birthrate in Canada.

Not remotely true. As of 2016 Quebec has a fertility rate of 1.59 children per women which is higher than the Canadian average (1.54), Ontario (the largest province by far, 1.46) as well as BC (1.40) and the Atlantic provinces (1.42-1.58).

See https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91-209-x/2018001/article...

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#175

Post by lolinder » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #133

lammalamma25 wrote: post #127

Every story about China should include a note that the government decides how many children its citizens are allowed to have. We've grown numb to how terrible this is.

I’m a pretty staunch critic of China, but population control seems like a pretty good thing. I suppose ideally it would be promoted but ultimately voluntary, but I don’t think their single child policy was the worst thing they’ve done by far.

How about forced sterilization, forced abortions, and the interplay between the one child policy and culture that led to massive numbers of sex-targeted abortions and infanticide? Calling it "population control" euphemizes away the horrible human cost of the enforcement methods and the collateral damage.

I'd agree it's not the worst thing they've done so far, but given that they're actively committing genocide that's a pretty high bar.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#176

Post by topkai22 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

thefounder wrote: post #136

jacquesm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a sick little comment. The world is a lot larger than the rich West and historically children were what we have - in some wealthy places - a social security system for. But in many places where the state is barely functional and family ties are strong children tend to take care of their elders, because that's how it's been traditionally. The best way to reduce that factor in how many children people have is to u…

It looks like in China it's even a law[1] that old people use to take advantage of their children. Just because it's a "tradition" doesn't make it good. It's been a "tradition" to beat your wife and children as well in many parts of the world or even worse. If you are miserable why would you like to make your children's life miserable as well? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7422934/

Some states in the US have variations on this type of law:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#177

Post by mcculley » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #169

mcculley wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that. I am amused that anyone would think that only “communists” have bureaucracy.

Maybe I don't actually think that and just refered to their special kind of buerocrats? I sort of hate buerocracy in all its shapes, but given the choice between a western style buerocrat and a marxist buerocrat, I choose the former.

I am not capable of reading thoughts. I was reading the words you wrote.

Now I am more amused at the notion that modern China is Marxist.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#178

Post by MandieD » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #105

hutzlibu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you raise a unreported child in china? How would that work? With no papers at all and the communist buerocrats also really likes paper about everything. ?

https://thediplomat.com/2015/03/chinas-hidden-children/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/30... It's also China, where they put toxic stuff in watered down milk to make it look as foamy as protein-rich good milk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal , i.e. a place with a lot of corruption and where gaps are possible.

Up until Covid stopped business travel, my Chinese colleagues brought home as much infant formula or follow up milk powder for toddlers as they thought they could get away with when visiting HQ in Germany, and always asked us to bring some with us when we went there. Lots of stores here had limits on how much you could buy at once because of that.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#179

Post by Traster » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

MichaelRazum wrote: post #108

Just curious are such policies considered a human right violation. For example could US or let's say France implement such law as well? Let's say the government just want's to prevent families having more than 5+ children for whatever reason.

Western countries attempt to manage this through taxation and benefits. There are plenty of countries that encourage having children with tax benefits. The UK controversially introduced a limit to how much you’ll get in state support if you have more than 3 children- https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claiming-benefits-for-2-or-more-...

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#180

Post by tsss » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #2

It feels strange to me why they're not just getting rid of the limit at this point. Especially since they already seem to have trouble getting couples to have two children.

Probably because exactly the wrong people will have five or more children while the highly educated that they want to reproduce continue to have only one.