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Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

economist.com

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Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#151

Post by heisenbit »

orls wrote: post #141
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHO was not pressured into saying not to ban flights from China. The International Health Regulations (2005),[1] which govern the WHO, and which the US played a key role in drafting, strongly discourage travel restrictions. The WHO is supposed to urge member countries to keep their borders open as much as possible, and to only institute travel restrictions if there is clear scientific evidence that they will help. Pr…

> If you look at how SARS-CoV-2 initially spread in the US, the WHO was not wrong. The US banned travel from China, but continued to allow travel from Europe. The first major outbreak in the US, in NY, was brought in from Europe. It’s worth noting that there’s evidence it was already spreading in Seattle in Jan/Feb, following a Chinese import, before the late Feb/March outbreak in New York (which, yes, appears to hav…

Yes, but at that time this was not actionable anecdotal evidence as the CDC insisted to reinvent their own flavor of PCR tests, failed and did not mitigate properly by e.g. asking for help. It allowed everyone to close eyes and hope for the best for some crucial months.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#152

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

orls wrote: post #141
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHO was not pressured into saying not to ban flights from China. The International Health Regulations (2005),[1] which govern the WHO, and which the US played a key role in drafting, strongly discourage travel restrictions. The WHO is supposed to urge member countries to keep their borders open as much as possible, and to only institute travel restrictions if there is clear scientific evidence that they will help. Pr…

> If you look at how SARS-CoV-2 initially spread in the US, the WHO was not wrong. The US banned travel from China, but continued to allow travel from Europe. The first major outbreak in the US, in NY, was brought in from Europe. It’s worth noting that there’s evidence it was already spreading in Seattle in Jan/Feb, following a Chinese import, before the late Feb/March outbreak in New York (which, yes, appears to hav…

And in California. One patient died of CoVID-19 in California as early as 6 February 2020, though that only came to light months later. The patient had no recent travel history, so there was community spread in California in January 2020, at the latest.

I referred to the NY outbreak as the first "major outbreak" in the US, because it was much larger than the outbreaks in Seattle and California.

However, the fact that there were these early cases in the US just underscores how ineffective a policy of closing borders and then failing to test is (or worse yet, only banning travel from some countries and then failing to test). Even China, which has extremely strict travel restrictions (it takes multiple rounds of PCR testing and two weeks of quarantine to get into the country), has occasional imported cases. Without constant surveillance, those few cases would quickly develop into a full-blown outbreak.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#153

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

Uberphallus wrote: post #127
nmz wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FACT: COVID-19 is NOT airborne. > The coronavirus is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes or speaks. > To protect yourself: > -keep 1m distance from others > -disinfect surfaces frequently > -wash/rub your > -avoid touching your From: https://www.facebook.com/WHO/posts/fact-covid-19-is-not-airb... Further reading: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/05/28/who…

> The coronavirus is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes or speaks. Emphasis mine. Honestly there was no way around the mess, thanks to social media amplifying any popular outrage and misunderstanding to 11. And I'm not excusing the WHO, their role has been borderline criminal at the beginning, and their reactions slow, but it's also very difficult to convey complex i…

> And I'm not excusing the WHO, their role has been borderline criminal at the beginning, and their reactions slow

What do you mean by this? The WHO was practically screaming at the top of its lungs all throughout February 2020 that countries were not taking the new coronavirus seriously enough.

Just take this headline from 21 February 2020: "World must act fast to contain coronavirus: WHO's Tedros."

> “Although the window of opportunity is narrowing to contain the outbreak, we still have a chance to contain it [...] If we don't, if we squander the opportunity, then there will be a serious problem on our hands”

This was before Italy began quarantining towns in Lombardy (22 February 2020). The US was only testing hundreds of samples a day, and political figures from Trump to Pelosi were reassuring the public that everything was under control. Only it wasn't under control, but nobody in the US knew that, because contrary to the WHO's recommendations, the US was not conducting large-scale testing.

Of all the countries and institutions involved in this pandemic, I think the WHO comes out looking pretty good in comparison. If the US and European countries had heeded the WHO warnings and followed its technical advice in February 2020, they could have fared far better in the first wave.

1. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-who-idUSKBN2...

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#154

Post by jiofih »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #56
jiofih wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious to know how to wear a mask while eating.

You take your food and go eat at home, like we actually did.

Uh, this is about ventilation in internal spaces. Like restaurants. Where you eat inside. Your comment is completely out of context.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#155

Post by throwaway316943 »

Uberphallus wrote: post #150
throwaway316943 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have just pointed everyone to that video made by Japanese researchers that shows how long aerosols can remain airborne and circulate in a room as well as how they are dispersed from the mouth by coughing, sneezing and talking. It was very illustrative and was ready made and waiting for a situation like this.

Unless we're talking of different videos, that's from september/october.

Probably different, the one I’m thinking of was made years ago. I’m looking but it seems they reuploaded it under a different title and the link to the full doc is dead.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#156

Post by actually_a_dog »

jiofih wrote: post #154
actually_a_dog wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You take your food and go eat at home, like we actually did.

Uh, this is about ventilation in internal spaces. Like restaurants. Where you eat inside. Your comment is completely out of context.

No, you were just trolling. The answer is you don't do that.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#157

Post by throwaway316943 »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #155
Uberphallus wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless we're talking of different videos, that's from september/october.

Probably different, the one I’m thinking of was made years ago. I’m looking but it seems they reuploaded it under a different title and the link to the full doc is dead.

I can’t find the video from Toho University but I found some papers that used the same methods

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002185020...

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#158

Post by anoncake »

toast0 wrote: post #70
behnamoh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately, we also live in a world where the UN and its agencies do not have a monopoly on good information. We live in a world where the UN is basically a formality. I don't see how this organization has been helpful in solving world problems and preventing wars at all.

The ITU (a UN agency) helps solve the world problem of what country code to use to call countries, and coordinates new codes for new countries. If that's not a world problem, and it's not solved by the UN, I don't know what would satisfy you. There have been very few wars since the UN was formed. Instead, we mostly have armed conflicts and military engagements, preventing many wars.

> Instead, we mostly have armed conflicts and military engagements, preventing many wars.

What exactly is a war if not an armed conflict?

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#159

Post by deorder »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #131
deorder wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are referring to Maurice de Hond I assume?

I looked and couldn't find anything to suggest this person was banned from YouTube.

I am not sure if the comment above me was referring to him, but I know back then they called what he was claiming (improving ventilation) misinformation.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#160

Post by Uberphallus »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #153
Uberphallus wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The coronavirus is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes or speaks. Emphasis mine. Honestly there was no way around the mess, thanks to social media amplifying any popular outrage and misunderstanding to 11. And I'm not excusing the WHO, their role has been borderline criminal at the beginning, and their reactions slow, but it's also very difficult to convey complex i…

> And I'm not excusing the WHO, their role has been borderline criminal at the beginning, and their reactions slow What do you mean by this? The WHO was practically screaming at the top of its lungs all throughout February 2020 that countries were not taking the new coronavirus seriously enough. Just take this headline from 21 February 2020: "World must act fast to contain coronavirus: WHO's Tedros." > “Although the…

21 Feb is hardly the beginning. Most epidemiologists worldwide were already nervous by early Feb.

By early Feb this was the stance[0].

> World Health Organization chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said on Monday there was no need for measures that “unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade”

>China’s delegate took the floor at the WHO Executive Board and denounced measures by “some countries” that have denied entry to people holding passports issued in Hubei province - at the center of the outbreak - and to deny visas and cancel flights.

>“All these measures are seriously against recommendation by the WHO,” said Li Song, who is China’s ambassador for disarmament at the United Nations in Geneva.

Unsurprisingly, the countries that best fared in pandemic terms are those which severely interfered with international travel, ironically including China.

[0]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-who/who-chie...

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