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What Oxford taught me about posh people

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Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#31

Post by azalemeth »

iratic0 wrote: post #15
osrec wrote: post #9

As someone who was also raised in the North of England, went to a state school, and also ended up going to Oxford, this article is spot on. It took me a while to realise that the state educated people were often the more talented ones (they've not had anything handed to them on a plate), and our lack of poshness was actually something to be proud of - not something to feel inferior about!

Also comp educated and went to Oxford. I feel like in the last 5 years or so it's become "uncool" to be posh. Feel like this has been instigated by (in the West) Brexit and Trump bringing the Establishment down a notch.

Me too. Agree completely. I had to battle to get allowed to take the entrance exams -- my school didn't want to pay for an invigilator, so I sat them in the deputy head of the sixth form's office. I got in. It changed my life. I also realised that, on a course like physics, most of the students came from quiet, nerdy backgrounds like me. It was often history / english / classics / PPE etc where the "great public schools" made their presence found. Oxford is a big place with ~30k students -- people can find others 'like them' if they're so inclined, and the cliques are to some extent self-perpetuating.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#32

Post by LysPJ »

In the article, there is the following quote:

> "But you’re thick like me", he said

For any readers who aren't familiar with British slang: the word "thick" means "stupid" in this context (as you have no-doubt worked out!).

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#33

Post by fallingknife »

gyulai wrote: post #10

I've studied in Cambridge myself, and feel like some context needs to be added here for American readers not to misunderstand something here: Admission to Cambridge & Oxford isn't related to family wealth in the same way as admission to "elite" universities in the U.S. For example: Tuition fees are in line with government-set rates and are no different for these institutions than other British universities (at least…

I don't remember being asked about wealth on college apps. Are you thinking of the FAFSA, which is a government form, and not part of the application process?

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#34

Post by Cyril_HN »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #11

As an Oxford alumni, I would personally focus on this more: "But Oxford wasn’t like that. The teaching was personalised, flexible and interactive. That kind of system keeps people like me in the room, fired up and engaged. Kids like me, who don’t flourish in school, can benefit from such attention, and focus, and belief. A good society would strive to give it to them." Oxford provides an amazing environment if you ge…

Interestingly, I wouldn't suggest that that has anything (or much) at all to do with "elite" universities.

At St Andrews I didn't find that to be true. At a far less prestigious university, it was true. My cohort largely agrees with that assessment, too.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#35

Post by pm90 »

gyulai wrote: post #10

I've studied in Cambridge myself, and feel like some context needs to be added here for American readers not to misunderstand something here: Admission to Cambridge & Oxford isn't related to family wealth in the same way as admission to "elite" universities in the U.S. For example: Tuition fees are in line with government-set rates and are no different for these institutions than other British universities (at least…

I think you may have a misunderstanding of how the US education system works. There are lots of scholarships and financial aid opportunities accessible for students that need them. Most “Elite State Schools” also have some kind of programs that give preference to bright students from their own state. E.g. University of Texas gives an automatic admission to the top 7% of Texas high school graduates. In state tuition is almost always ridiculously cheaper.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#36

Post by zhdc1 »

iratic0 wrote: post #7
mmmrk wrote: post #2

I'm currently reading Taleb's Antifragility book and he strikes a similar tune: The education system being little more than a way to cement social status, with actual innovation and entrepreneurship largely taking place outside it. Wealth leads to education, not the other way around. I find this topic fascinating and it makes me see discussions about underfunded education systems and universities from a different ang…

"Wealth leads to education". This is how it used to be. The "Liberal" Arts were named so as the sort of people who studied them had freedom from normal labour. Then came the push in the 80s to 00s to get more working class kids into higher education, so they could have the same opportunities as upper class folk, thinking education leads to wealth. Instead we've just ended up with a bunch of working class kids graduat…

Eh, a lot of folks forget that the shift to the liberal arts after the 50s had a lot to do with a surplus of engineers (and relatively lower salaries for their capabilities) and the desire to get into corporate management positions, which was a reasonable ambition before the popularity of MBAs and business programs.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#37

Post by vletal »

runawaybottle wrote: post #6
vletal wrote: post #4

My life goal was to attend one of these elite universities. I desired to work at companies such as Google or Apple. After graduating from the Czech Technical University I realized that 1. I am much less special then I thought 2. There is much more hard working focused average people then the few talented superstars, both usually achieving the same 3. Surprisingly many of the exceptionally smart people in my social bu…

#3 and #5 are by-products of extreme privilege. Take your average bootcamper, they usually rack up a huge bill majoring in something in college (often a literal dream major), then somehow field a 17k check to just waltz over to tech when they need an office job finally. Not everyone can do this. You have to be really lucky to play games like that and still be fine. The same goes for ‘going off to start my own food tr…

#5 - I think that grading is not a good feedback for many disadvantaged kids and their parents. I was being told that without good grades I will not land a good job. This kind of advice is worthless for a 12yo and not really true. Having a good attitude towards learning is an universally more applicable and could lead to a thriving society when applied generally.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#38

Post by MattGaiser »

iratic0 wrote: post #7
mmmrk wrote: post #2

I'm currently reading Taleb's Antifragility book and he strikes a similar tune: The education system being little more than a way to cement social status, with actual innovation and entrepreneurship largely taking place outside it. Wealth leads to education, not the other way around. I find this topic fascinating and it makes me see discussions about underfunded education systems and universities from a different ang…

"Wealth leads to education". This is how it used to be. The "Liberal" Arts were named so as the sort of people who studied them had freedom from normal labour. Then came the push in the 80s to 00s to get more working class kids into higher education, so they could have the same opportunities as upper class folk, thinking education leads to wealth. Instead we've just ended up with a bunch of working class kids graduat…

> Then came the push in the 80s to 00s to get more working class kids into higher education, so they could have the same opportunities as upper class folk, thinking education leads to wealth. Instead we've just ended up with a bunch of working class kids graduating to become baristas.

How much of this is just being stuck in old mindsets?

I went to an expensive private school with lots of rich people and just 1 student chose a program outside of business, engineering, or medicine and we were far from a science school. It was clearly understood that arts was a path to serving coffee. A school that arguably had more people win essay/book competitions than science fairs produced nobody in those areas.

In university, I met tons of people who thought that having a degree alone opened up a pile of job options. They were 20 years behind the mindset of my private school.

It is now that certain education leads to wealth and plenty of people are doing education which does not.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#39

Post by thefz »

varispeed wrote: post #14
gyulai wrote: post #10

I've studied in Cambridge myself, and feel like some context needs to be added here for American readers not to misunderstand something here: Admission to Cambridge & Oxford isn't related to family wealth in the same way as admission to "elite" universities in the U.S. For example: Tuition fees are in line with government-set rates and are no different for these institutions than other British universities (at least…

Do you think universities still offer knowledge otherwise not accessible anywhere else? I mean, there are courses that require "hands on" experience and guidance, but for things like IT, how uni is any better than e.g. Udemy, free lectures from around the world and meetups?

I have been lucky enough to have some of my university courses taught by some luminaries in their field. Most of them have taught me a framework for thinking as well as their course, not to mention being able to transmit some of their passion and love for curiosity. There is so much more besides lessons at the university, I would not even compare any video course with it honestly.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#40

Post by runawaybottle »

js8 wrote: post #24
runawaybottle wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#3 and #5 are by-products of extreme privilege. Take your average bootcamper, they usually rack up a huge bill majoring in something in college (often a literal dream major), then somehow field a 17k check to just waltz over to tech when they need an office job finally. Not everyone can do this. You have to be really lucky to play games like that and still be fine. The same goes for ‘going off to start my own food tr…

> #3 and #5 are by-products of extreme privilege. Just to clarify, Czech Technical University is free (for Czech citizens) - I also graduated there. I understand what you're saying, but I am somehow repulsed by the idea that such a system is considered a "privilege". It doesn't have to be a privilege. If you don't have good public universities in your country, you should consider getting involved in politics.

My point was mostly centered around freedom. Everyone knows the rules of the game. Those who can’t toy around, play the game straight and narrow (good grades, stay focused on one concentration, and hope you picked well).

It’s a luxury to try one thing or another, no matter the cost (cash and time), and still land in an ideal situation as life progresses.

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