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What Oxford taught me about posh people

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Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#21

Post by nicoburns »

gyulai wrote: post #10

I've studied in Cambridge myself, and feel like some context needs to be added here for American readers not to misunderstand something here: Admission to Cambridge & Oxford isn't related to family wealth in the same way as admission to "elite" universities in the U.S. For example: Tuition fees are in line with government-set rates and are no different for these institutions than other British universities (at least…

> There are, of course, impediments to social mobility into the class of Oxbridge-educated people, but it revolves more around academics than about money. For example, I found that the students disproportionately came from families where their parents were career academics. The relationship with those families having a lot of money was not something I particularly noticed.

My observation studying in Oxford was that there was a big dispatity in opportunity, but it derived more from inequities in the quality of schooling available than unfairness in the admissions process. I met a lot of state educated students, but most of them came from well-regarded schools on upper-middle class areas that got hundreds of students into Oxbridge univeristies each year.

Very few came from schools like mime that couldn't even work out which entrance exams I needn't to take for the course I was applying to.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#22

Post by gyulai »

varispeed wrote: post #14
gyulai wrote: post #10

I've studied in Cambridge myself, and feel like some context needs to be added here for American readers not to misunderstand something here: Admission to Cambridge & Oxford isn't related to family wealth in the same way as admission to "elite" universities in the U.S. For example: Tuition fees are in line with government-set rates and are no different for these institutions than other British universities (at least…

Do you think universities still offer knowledge otherwise not accessible anywhere else? I mean, there are courses that require "hands on" experience and guidance, but for things like IT, how uni is any better than e.g. Udemy, free lectures from around the world and meetups?

I think going to university is a luxury. It is a luxury I personally enjoyed having in my life. It is a luxury I want my children to be able to enjoy one day. It makes your life richer in the same way that, say, having horses makes your life richer, or sailing around the world in a yacht.

Of course there are people who don't enjoy horses. Or yachts. And not enjoying university should be seen as being no different.

If you look at them as an investment, I don't think they're a particularly good one.

And I think that this cycle of runaway inflation with regard to academic credentials as a prerequisite for jobs that don't actually require them is something that should be stopped.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#23

Post by stablenode »

approxim8ion wrote: post #16
stablenode wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> at the expense of whom, exactly? Everyone they step on along the way.

Could you develop that point? I went to a northern comprehensive; I now lecture CS, but I have no recollection of being 'stepped on' by the Tarquins and Glorias of this world along the way -- in fact, I always felt that it is they who should be worried if they try. You may have some self esteem issues, mate.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#24

Post by js8 »

runawaybottle wrote: post #6
vletal wrote: post #4

My life goal was to attend one of these elite universities. I desired to work at companies such as Google or Apple. After graduating from the Czech Technical University I realized that 1. I am much less special then I thought 2. There is much more hard working focused average people then the few talented superstars, both usually achieving the same 3. Surprisingly many of the exceptionally smart people in my social bu…

#3 and #5 are by-products of extreme privilege. Take your average bootcamper, they usually rack up a huge bill majoring in something in college (often a literal dream major), then somehow field a 17k check to just waltz over to tech when they need an office job finally. Not everyone can do this. You have to be really lucky to play games like that and still be fine. The same goes for ‘going off to start my own food tr…

> #3 and #5 are by-products of extreme privilege.

Just to clarify, Czech Technical University is free (for Czech citizens) - I also graduated there. I understand what you're saying, but I am somehow repulsed by the idea that such a system is considered a "privilege". It doesn't have to be a privilege. If you don't have good public universities in your country, you should consider getting involved in politics.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#25

Post by cblconfederate »

The UK has made an export industry out of this snobbery and attracts hundreds of thousands of international students for this prestige. I wonder if ethologists have studied this behavior. Queen bees are not selected with an IQ test, they re selected randomly and raised by the plebs to become their queen.It's a successful strategy evidently. I guess something similar might work in primates where the random selection is the 'nearest trusted family friend'.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#27

Post by osrec »

iratic0 wrote: post #15
osrec wrote: post #9

As someone who was also raised in the North of England, went to a state school, and also ended up going to Oxford, this article is spot on. It took me a while to realise that the state educated people were often the more talented ones (they've not had anything handed to them on a plate), and our lack of poshness was actually something to be proud of - not something to feel inferior about!

Also comp educated and went to Oxford. I feel like in the last 5 years or so it's become "uncool" to be posh. Feel like this has been instigated by (in the West) Brexit and Trump bringing the Establishment down a notch.

I think that's true, but amongst posh people, it's always been cool to be posh, but pretend to be not posh.

Out of interest, what did you study at Oxford?

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#28

Post by TimPC »

mmmrk wrote: post #2

I'm currently reading Taleb's Antifragility book and he strikes a similar tune: The education system being little more than a way to cement social status, with actual innovation and entrepreneurship largely taking place outside it. Wealth leads to education, not the other way around. I find this topic fascinating and it makes me see discussions about underfunded education systems and universities from a different ang…

Innovation and Entrepreneurship are supposed to take place outside of academia. Core research is the mission of academia. The research that doesn’t have the immediate returns or value capture to justify starting a company around. Some exceptions where academics launch businesses from their research but those are exactly that, exceptions.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#29

Post by iratic0 »

gyulai wrote: post #10

I've studied in Cambridge myself, and feel like some context needs to be added here for American readers not to misunderstand something here: Admission to Cambridge & Oxford isn't related to family wealth in the same way as admission to "elite" universities in the U.S. For example: Tuition fees are in line with government-set rates and are no different for these institutions than other British universities (at least…

"For example, I found that the students disproportionately came from families where their parents were career academics"

I also found that students disproportionately cam from families who themselves had studied at Oxbridge.

"The relationship with those families having a lot of money was not something I particularly noticed."

When I was there, I noticed students disproportionately came from wealthy families, wealth in the millions rather than billions terms.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#30

Post by zwischenzug »

iratic0 wrote: post #15
osrec wrote: post #9

As someone who was also raised in the North of England, went to a state school, and also ended up going to Oxford, this article is spot on. It took me a while to realise that the state educated people were often the more talented ones (they've not had anything handed to them on a plate), and our lack of poshness was actually something to be proud of - not something to feel inferior about!

Also comp educated and went to Oxford. I feel like in the last 5 years or so it's become "uncool" to be posh. Feel like this has been instigated by (in the West) Brexit and Trump bringing the Establishment down a notch.

It was uncool when I went in 1994.

My experience wasn't quite the same but I went to a college that had the highest proportion of state school students, and only heard about the most egregious posh people behaviour through rumour. The parker-bowles mob were notorious, for example, but I never came across them.

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