Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts) • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#91

Post by hakfoo » Mon, May 31, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

skipnup wrote: post #82

PostThisTooFast wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how Google degraded their search functionality by removing the + operator (which required that the following word be present in every result) because it allegedly interfered with idiotic "Google Plus." And did they restore it after shitcanning Google Plus? No.

Putting a word in quotes achieves the same effect nowadays

There seem to be a lot of cases where no amount of quote marks will convince them to not match similar words, giving me 5,000,000 results of garbage and none of useful content. Ironically, I suspect some of the things I search were deliberately written with unusual language SO they'd be able to easily searched later.

Also, I've found more and more frequently I get the "there aren't any great results" response from them lately, complete with condescending "maybe search for 'cake recipes' instead" explanation box. Honestly, I'd think if you can find things that they know have few/no results, they should be trying to gain direct feedback-- why are you searching for this, and what could help improve results?

It feels like the dominant market players want to create an illusion of endless depth, and any time where you can actually reach the bottom of the barrel is an embarrassment. So you've got Google chastising you for stumping them, and Amazon giving you 98 unrelated garbage results when there are really only two widgets you actually care about in stock.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#92

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 31, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #64

10 or 15 years ago, this behaviour would universally be called adware and shunned, yet now Microsoft does it too? In addition to the Windows 10 alert, Microsoft Edge has also gained a new full-screen prompt that advises users to restore the ‘recommended’ browser and set Bing as the default search engine. ...complete with Corporate Memphis[1]. That screenshot sums up just about everything I hate about "modern" softwar…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#93

Post by hakfoo » Mon, May 31, 2021, 6:57 AM UTC

alexeldeib wrote: post #10

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite is how when you right-click some highlighted text in Edge, before the "Search the web for this" button, is an additional "Search Bing for this" button. I'm sure the product designer's thought was, "Maybe they just forgot how excellent Bing is, and they will decide to click this Bing button, rather than using the non-Bing search engine they explicitly configured before!" And not "Let's trap some accidental…

Oh this is diabolical IMO. I just tested it to understand what's happening. Below "search the web", there is always a "search in sidebar" option. "Sidebar" basically splits your window and loads your search in the new pane. I assume this is some custom webview, but it looks very, very similar to a new window/tab. The kicker: only Bing search can be loaded in the sidebar. So when you change your default search engine…

I can see a modest excuse for restricting the sidebar view to Bing, in that you need to have a reasonably suitable display format for the results.

Microsoft can be aware of and support the case from both sides, but I could imagine Google detecting "User-agent = Edge and the window width=300px", and sending some experience-ruining CSS or JavaScript to try to nudge users back to Chrome.

I know there was a while where various Google properties were unreasonably clunky on Firefox, and I can't imagine it was by accident; doubtless a trillion-dollar company can wire up a few CI instances to make sure things load well on non-Chrome browsers.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#94

Post by hakfoo » Mon, May 31, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

smcl wrote: post #79

gruez wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst... If you want to be 100% legit.

Interesting, am I reading it right that this ... “ 4x Microsoft Identity Manager - 1 User CAL - Open Business (NK7-00031)” ... means to get a valid single-user LTSC license you need four Identity Manager licenses? That’s odd

I think the gimmick is they'll only sell it in a package of a total of 5 licenses of some sort total, so this is probably the cheapest other thing you can buy to get to that count.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#95

Post by skinkestek » Mon, May 31, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

skipnup wrote: post #82

PostThisTooFast wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how Google degraded their search functionality by removing the + operator (which required that the following word be present in every result) because it allegedly interfered with idiotic "Google Plus." And did they restore it after shitcanning Google Plus? No.

Putting a word in quotes achieves the same effect nowadays

No, not for many of us at least.

Has't worked reliably for me and a number of others for close to a decade I think (the first blog post I know of that mention it is from 2011 or 2013 I think.)

Oh, and I think it is the same thing as others mention in this discussion: infantilization and "we know better than you".

But being Google it might also be just general lack of care.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#96

Post by grishka » Mon, May 31, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

thih9 wrote: post #84

userbinator wrote: post #64

10 or 15 years ago, this behaviour would universally be called adware and shunned, yet now Microsoft does it too? In addition to the Windows 10 alert, Microsoft Edge has also gained a new full-screen prompt that advises users to restore the ‘recommended’ browser and set Bing as the default search engine. ...complete with Corporate Memphis[1]. That screenshot sums up just about everything I hate about "modern" softwar…

I don't get the hate towards Corporate Memphis. I'm not sure what would be better instead; a stock photo seems just as bad. To me the problem isn't in what the ad looks like, but that the ad is there. I also don't like that the ad is shown to a particular group of people, i.e. ones who aren't doing what lies in the company's best interests.

Greedy corporations trying their damnest to be cutesy and humanlike just make me cringe. That's all.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#97

Post by skinkestek » Mon, May 31, 2021, 7:01 AM UTC

jrsj wrote: post #40

swiley wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They got slammed for anti-trust with IE and then noticed Apple got away with even worse on iOS. Now they've doubled down.

Google really started this though. And they didn’t use anti competitive advertising practices to kill IE, they used them to kill Firefox.

Google started it this time.

As was mentioned the other day: take the time to report Chrome to relevant authorities were you live.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#98

Post by mlang23 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

I get the Edge-hate. I have my own experiences with lack of accessibility support in earlier versions. But, philosophically speaking, there is no difference between using Edge and Chrome. There are things which simply shouldnt be controlled by a single large company like MS or G. The difference between Chrome and Edge seems to be that Google managed to launch Chrome before they dumped their reputation. And some of the old rep seemingly stuck to Chrome. This is silly.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#99

Post by smcl » Mon, May 31, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

hakfoo wrote: post #94

smcl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, am I reading it right that this ... “ 4x Microsoft Identity Manager - 1 User CAL - Open Business (NK7-00031)” ... means to get a valid single-user LTSC license you need four Identity Manager licenses? That’s odd

I think the gimmick is they'll only sell it in a package of a total of 5 licenses of some sort total, so this is probably the cheapest other thing you can buy to get to that count.

Ahhhh good thinking, thanks!

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#100

Post by anothernewdude » Mon, May 31, 2021, 7:21 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #64

10 or 15 years ago, this behaviour would universally be called adware and shunned, yet now Microsoft does it too? In addition to the Windows 10 alert, Microsoft Edge has also gained a new full-screen prompt that advises users to restore the ‘recommended’ browser and set Bing as the default search engine. ...complete with Corporate Memphis[1]. That screenshot sums up just about everything I hate about "modern" softwar…

Microsoft has always done this. IE/Edge is there by default, you can't delay forever the machine restart after an update, and they've long since removed the TechNet subscriptions.