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NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

bbc.com

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Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#61

Post by paganel »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #14
quyleanh wrote: post #8

I still wonder, what happens if other countries like China, Russia spy on other governments and are disclosed? They will be embargoed by US. But why there is nothing happens when US spying other countries? Because US does it with good manner and good intention?

Remember the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

Or the nuclear arsenal which sits on your side. Most of Europe has effectively outsourced its military defence to the Americans with some plain, visible costs (the at least 2% of GDP in military expenditure the previous US president was so keen about) and, more importantly, there are also some other, hidden costs, like the Assange scandal and stuff like this Danish - NSA cooperation.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#62

Post by matsemann »

BombNullIsland wrote: post #9
ahmedalsudani wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a big club and you ain’t in it https://youtu.be/Nyvxt1svxso

I'm a white late-30's politically inactive prole with no social media accounts, a paid off house, solar panels, plug in hybrid, e-bike and large vegetable garden. None of this bullshit really concerns me. It's all just the oligarchs fighting for who gets to momentarily sit at the top of the pile.

Spoken like a true one-percenter.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#64

Post by jmartinpetersen »

Most sovereign States can’t spy on their own population. The NSA gets around this by spying on Germany from Denmark and on Denmark from Germany.

It’s all about plausible deniability. No matter how implausible it is.

The current spin from other countries being outraged begs the question: how are you collaborating with the NSA?

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#65

Post by jopsen »

aborsy wrote: post #63

Funny question, wouldn’t the head of these European states use e2e encryption? If they do, how does NSA break encryption without having secret keys? Frankly, we can’t blame NSA only.

I'm guessing phone calls and sms isn't encrypted and frequently used.

Regardless, just monitoring IPs talking to each other will have you some idea what sites / services they are using.

Also 10 years ago HTTPS wasn't everywhere yet.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#66

Post by xorcist »

It is one thing that intelligence services is monitoring specific actions that are important to national security. However, along the way, Lockheed Martin and friends and the jobs provided by them became national security. These two things are important to keep separate to understand the debate that is going on here.

So this is Danish intelligence services helping Boeing securing contracts against Airbus and Saab. This is rightfully causing some much needed debate, even if it was a surprise to approximately no one.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#67

Post by jopsen »

hosteur wrote: post #54
BombNullIsland wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just assume that every electronic communication is dragneted now. Your phone, your car radio's bluetooth radio, toll transponder, alpr, everything. What I like about the signals-intelligence-only focus is that I can leave my phone at home, hop on an ebike with a legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras, and I'm completely invisible to the state. I just don't exist. Unlike East Germany there's no HUM…

> Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China. You are very mistaken. Just because HUMINT are more discreet does not mean it does not exist. Also, some of the stuff they do are very blatant. Just look at cases like Assange and Jake Appelbaum. Clearly HUMINT efforts.

I personally suspect there are no HUMINT efforts to spy on me :)

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#68

Post by nosianu »

rsj_hn wrote: post #13
quyleanh wrote: post #8

I still wonder, what happens if other countries like China, Russia spy on other governments and are disclosed? They will be embargoed by US. But why there is nothing happens when US spying other countries? Because US does it with good manner and good intention?

Wait, we have an embargo against China?

Quite timely that we have a Wikipedia article on the HN homepage right now. Because I find that that site often helps with such questions, so I find them quite a valuable resource.

They have a list for just this question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_agains...

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#69

Post by aborsy »

jopsen wrote: post #65
aborsy wrote: post #63

Funny question, wouldn’t the head of these European states use e2e encryption? If they do, how does NSA break encryption without having secret keys? Frankly, we can’t blame NSA only.

I'm guessing phone calls and sms isn't encrypted and frequently used. Regardless, just monitoring IPs talking to each other will have you some idea what sites / services they are using. Also 10 years ago HTTPS wasn't everywhere yet.

Why on earth someone like Merkle will use plaintext SMS? I mean, even I don’t use it.

Doesn’t she have a competent security team, advising her about OPSec?

It’s not just metadata. US spied on communication content.

The point is, tools are there; you need to be able to defend yourself against attacks.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#70

Post by sneak »

noja wrote: post #49
sneak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it would be fair to say that countries that operate in this way are no longer democracies? I have my own thoughts on the matter but I'm curious based on this assessment of yours what other people think about the implications of the situation.

> Do you think it would be fair to say that countries that operate in this way are no longer democracies? Such an agency operating outside of the visibility of those voting is by definition not democratic. But that doesn't mean the rest of the democracy isn't there.

Just because the rest of the democracy is there doesn't mean the country is actually a democracy though, if the machinery of democracy exists but can't control and regulate the totality of the state.
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