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Overkill objects for everyday life

neil.computer

571–580 of 732 posts

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#571

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

I'll disagree. A right to repair law would make most products equally servicable and it will naturally displace the replace-when-broken type of products because this is an enormous waste of resources.

Is that correct?

To my knowledge most people campaigning for Right to Repair don’t want change the designs of the things we currently buy.

They just want to stop companies banning their suppliers from selling spares to consumers.

That is, most things are already reparable enough but certain firms are going out of their way to stop that happening.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one needs to be a bit selective here. About 8 years ago I bought the cheapest catering/professional microwave/combioven I could get my hands on. I did this because I got tired of consumer units with overcomplicated UIs designed (apparently) by unregenerate misanthropes, rotating dishes that are a pain in the ass to clean, overzealous bleeps that go off every 30 - 60 seconds after a cycle is finished, peeling…

Commenting on the „overcomplicated UI“ designs: It takes quite some research to find single-purpose devices, that are tailored for a specific use case - and are not overburdened with often unused features. There‘s not enough metadata out there on ecommerce sites to filter for that. Take the microwave example: I‘m happy with the Samsung MWF300G microwave which does just one thing (heating stuff) really well in a very…

I’ll do you one better a single dial microwave that even my 5yo could use I bought in 2017 [1]

Commercial grade. No rotating dish but still warms everything nicely. Pain for defrost but honestly I just don’t defrost stuff much.

[1] Sharp R-21LCFS Medium Duty Commercial Microwave (Dial Timer, 1000-Watts, 120-Volts) (Update of R-21LCF) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BDF5ZNS

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#573

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

I'll disagree. A right to repair law would make most products equally servicable and it will naturally displace the replace-when-broken type of products because this is an enormous waste of resources.

> A right to repair law would make most products equally servicable

How is that possible to enforce?

If a company comes up with a design that is less serviceable than its competitors, but has other advantages, is it forbidden from selling its new design?

If a company comes up with a design that is more serviceable than its competitors, are all the competitors now forbidden from selling their old design?

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#574

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

I kinda disagree. These aren’t very good examples. Also the dough mixer is for restaurants, not military use. :-) Although I want one now. Here is a kitchen scale I bought. Made in Switzerland, no less. It’s bloody beautiful: https://neil.computer/notes/mettler-toledo-ml3002e-teardown/ Does that mean all consumer grade stuff is bad? No. Leatherman tools and 3M consumer grade stuff is usually great. Nalgene bottles. D…

Love this article and agree completely. I always go for the functional, reliable and sturdy industrial versions if possible. I also like the design and engineering that go into these products instead of the typical polished plastic consumer junk.

Lots of comments are talking about the extremes but most reasonable people can figure it out. Obviously don't use an industrial appliance that operates at 90db, requires high voltage electrical, and needs 2 hours of daily maintenance to make your coffee; but that liferaft bag is brilliant. Also nice industrial design on the site!

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#575
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been, over-time, retro-fitting my home with pro/commercial-grade infrastructure items such as: quarter-turn marine-grade ball valves for the water-main; toilets, clothes washer, fridge and dishwasher; recessed sillcock valves; outdoor hose reels and hoses; sprinklers (this is a biggie as so many sprinklers are one-season junk); heavy-duty light switches; ceiling fans (the wonderful Big-Ass fans stuff); locks a…

I’d really appreciate a site like that. Light switches in particular piss me off. Every single switch sold at Lowes or Home Depot are crap and I’ve yet to figure out where to buy something that’s actually decent with proper tactility. What light switches do you use?

For the specific case of light switches, ironically, sometimes all you have to do is not shop at big box stores. If you buy the exact same 5262 receptacle from Home Depot or from Zoro, you'll see they're completely different beasts! This is pretty brazen -- usually HD has the decency to add a suffix to the cheap-out version.

Longer form: there are three major manufacturers of switches and receptacles: Hubbell (Bryant), Leviton, and Pass&Seymour-Legrand. Hubbell is generally the highest price and quality. Leviton switches just feel "right" to me. I don't care for P&S much even though there's nothing wrong with them. All are completely interchangeable except for small visual details. This is really only noticable on wallplates (Hubbell stainless wallplates look the best -- and they're 302/304 SS so they don't rust in bathrooms like the 400 series trash at HD) and, if you mix them too nearby, switch rockers.

Pick your brand, then get their PDF catalog and find some part numbers. (There are plenty of other ways to do this, I just find catalogs effective.) You want "frameless" switches if you're going down this path: "framed" switches are the consumer junk you're running away from. (I dislike Decora -- I think it's harder to operate in the dark, and that's kind of a thing for light switches, but if it's your thing, go for it.) You'll find many possible part numbers to pick from. You want ONLY things marked as "Fed Spec" (more formally W-C-596). A lot of lesser stuff is "Spec Grade", which is a cop-out for "we think this is up to spec but we didn't actually list it". "Fed Spec" means "yeah, this one's good". (I will accept "spec grade" for oddballs like weird configurations -- it's not like they sell a ton of those -- since it really is decent, but don't settle for that on your main switch or receptacle, because you don't have to.) You can buy the cheapest things that are actually Fed Spec and you'll be golden.

You don't need the high-end Extra Heavy Duty stuff unless you're outfitting a shop or something. And you probably don't want Hospital Grade with those annoying pull-out forces, ugly green dots, and hospital prices. But none of those will hurt anything but your pocketbook, if you are so inclined. You'll just never appreciate them.

You should, for receptacles, get the ones that are Back And Side Wired. That means the side screws and the holes on the back, with the screw needed to grab the holes (i.e. not those horrid stabby-only holes on the super cheap receptacles). I made this mistake (Leviton BR15 vs CR15) and regretted it during install. Oh well.

If in doubt, look for the part number with the most color choices. It's probably popular for a reason. And don't forget that neon ("pilot") switches exist. They make understanding 3-ways and finding the staircase light in the dark way easier. Especially if the staircase lights are 3-way. Worth every penny!

Now that you have some part numbers, you just have to buy them from a trade supplier or industrial supplier and you're done! One place that's reliable is Zoro. They even used to have great pricing when they still offered coupons; seems those are rare now. But anywhere that's not big-box can sort you out.

Oh, and if this is your first time doing this, get a #1 square or Robertson screwdriver. No, not just a bit, you'll use it more than that and it's slimmer this way. The recesses on these things accept multiple bit shapes and I find that one by far the easiest to work with in that recess (due to the multiple-shape thing it's not great at holding any of them...).

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#576

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

I think one needs to be a bit selective here. About 8 years ago I bought the cheapest catering/professional microwave/combioven I could get my hands on. I did this because I got tired of consumer units with overcomplicated UIs designed (apparently) by unregenerate misanthropes, rotating dishes that are a pain in the ass to clean, overzealous bleeps that go off every 30 - 60 seconds after a cycle is finished, peeling…

After suffering through the APC and TrippLite crap, I bought a Falcon SSG1.5K UPS a few years ago for my animation workstation and network stuff. It has been fantastic. It does have a fan but it isn't noticeably loud.

https://westwardsales.com/falcon-ssg1.5k-ups

I bought it because the late writer Jerry Pournelle told me to.

https://www.falconups.com/byte6417-final.pdf

https://www.falconups.com/2008Chaos%20Manor%20Award.pdf

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#577
post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll disagree. A right to repair law would make most products equally servicable and it will naturally displace the replace-when-broken type of products because this is an enormous waste of resources.

Is that correct? To my knowledge most people campaigning for Right to Repair don’t want change the designs of the things we currently buy. They just want to stop companies banning their suppliers from selling spares to consumers. That is, most things are already reparable enough but certain firms are going out of their way to stop that happening.

If you can repair your stuff, then you start to buy stuff that is easier and cheaper to repair. Most commodity stuff is not all that differentiable and lower cost of ownership will be a factor.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda disagree. These aren’t very good examples. Also the dough mixer is for restaurants, not military use. :-) Although I want one now. Here is a kitchen scale I bought. Made in Switzerland, no less. It’s bloody beautiful: https://neil.computer/notes/mettler-toledo-ml3002e-teardown/ Does that mean all consumer grade stuff is bad? No. Leatherman tools and 3M consumer grade stuff is usually great. Nalgene bottles. D…

>>Always buy generic drugs, they're exactly the same. I'm sorry to say. This is false. This will be a bit technical but often, generic drugs are a racemic mix (both L and D conformations in some mixture) where as a branded drug may be a specific conformation or specific racemic mix (e.g. 75% L, 25% D.) The issue comes from the fact that L-conformations may have different (better, worse, otherwise) effects than the D-…

I have no idea what that comment meant to say. Am I being thick or it the same for anyone not manufacturing drugs for a living/as a hobby?

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll disagree. A right to repair law would make most products equally servicable and it will naturally displace the replace-when-broken type of products because this is an enormous waste of resources.

> A right to repair law would make most products equally servicable How is that possible to enforce? If a company comes up with a design that is less serviceable than its competitors, but has other advantages, is it forbidden from selling its new design? If a company comes up with a design that is more serviceable than its competitors, are all the competitors now forbidden from selling their old design?

They usually call it the "invisible hand". If servicibility is not a feature, then it is an implementation detail. The other positive sides of a design will be picked by competitors while servicibility will be an additional feature. The first generation of bad products will be displaced after a few years by a new generation of products that will be cheaper to own and will be as good as the unservicible ones.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, consumer items beyond a price point are both very well made and backed by long term warranties anyway. Paying a bit more for a better item which can be repaired or serviced for a very long time makes it cheaper in the long run in my experience, because you buy it once and for life. I love "overkill items for everyday life" point of view, but it comes with trade-offs for noise, ergonomics, size, replaceabili…

I mean I love Victorinoxes, but 35 euro kitchen knife is far from high end. Although theirs and Morakniv Frost have surprisingly good steel and HT for the price and they can get sharp - they are the cheapest real knives in the kitchen (kiwi and some chinesse cleavers excluded), not high end stuff.

I wasn't talking about the €35 "Classic" knives from Victorinox (e.g.: [0]). They're serially produced stamped steel blades.

I'm talking about Grand Maitre series [1], which are "Made in Germany under supervision of Victorinox" and are forged steel. They're nowhere near €35. I have a 15cm Grand Maitre Carving/Utility knife, and that thing's sharpness is scaring me sometimes. It's virtually equal with another handmade, hand forged set I have, and both blades hold their edges extraordinarily well.

OTOH, America's test kitchen has found that these €35 Classic knives has some extraordinary steel for their price, under an electron microscope. I was unable to find the exact video, sorry for that.

[0]: https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Cutlery/Chef%2... [1]: https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Cutlery/Chef%2...

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